Do you carry a Fire Extinguisher

[Dreamlifter]

This is what I carry. Fits well between the front seats of my Ranger.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/ps/fire_yh3r/a344tc.php

My Check Airman told me aircraft fire extinguishers are for people fires, not aircraft fires! 

[ArtVandelay]

This is what I carry. Fits well between the front seats of my Ranger.

You can go to amazon and save a little money.

https://www.amazon.com/H3R-Performance-MX100C-Fire-Extinguisher/dp/B003TPMP7Y/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=fire+extinguisher+car+chrome+h3r&qid=1567784901&s=gateway&sr=8-4


Tom

[gsxrpilot]

15 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

You can go to amazon and save a little money.

https://www.amazon.com/H3R-Performance-MX100C-Fire-Extinguisher/dp/B003TPMP7Y/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=fire+extinguisher+car+chrome+h3r&qid=1567784901&s=gateway&sr=8-4


Tom

I ordered the same one in Red. It's about $40 cheaper.

[RobertGary1]

52 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

You can go to amazon and save a little money.

https://www.amazon.com/H3R-Performance-MX100C-Fire-Extinguisher/dp/B003TPMP7Y/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=fire+extinguisher+car+chrome+h3r&qid=1567784901&s=gateway&sr=8-4


Tom

That's just a sodium bicarbonate extinguisher. Can't you get those cheap at the hardware store? I thought the reason those aren't for aviation is because you don't want to breath what it puts out.

-Robert 

[Marauder]

I hope you boys have a smoke mask to go along with the fire extinguishers.


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[RobertGary1]

1 minute ago, Marauder said:

I hope you boys have a smoke mask to go along with the fire extinguishers.


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That's why you normally use Halon in the cockpit.

 

"Halon is similar to CO2 in that it is suitable for use in cold weather and leaves no residue. Unlike CO2, however, Halon does not displace the air out of the area where it is dispensed. Even for the toughest fires, less than an 8% concentration of Halon by volume is required, leaving plenty of air to use in the evacuation process"

https://www.h3rcleanagents.com/support_faq_2.htm

-Robert

Edited September 6, 2019 by RobertGary1

[Marauder]

That's why you normally use Halon in the cockpit.
-Robert

I’m not talking about the extinguisher gas. If you are fighting a cockpit fire, there is a high probability of smoke being in the cockpit with you as well.


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[ArtVandelay]

That's just a sodium bicarbonate extinguisher. Can't you get those cheap at the hardware store? I thought the reason those aren't for aviation is because you don't want to breath what it puts out.
-Robert 

Yeah, you’d want this:
https://www.amazon.com/H3R-Performance-HG100C-HalGuard-Extinguisher/dp/B001KAO63G/ref=sr_1_1?crid=25OEZBNCF4CY&keywords=halguard+extinguisher&qid=1567788625&s=gateway&sprefix=Halgaurd+%2Caps%2C165&sr=8-1



Tom

[Marauder]

Yeah, you’d want this:
https://www.amazon.com/H3R-Performance-HG100C-HalGuard-Extinguisher/dp/B001KAO63G/ref=sr_1_1?crid=25OEZBNCF4CY&keywords=halguard+extinguisher&qid=1567788625&s=gateway&sprefix=Halgaurd+%2Caps%2C165&sr=8-1



Tom

And one of these: https://www.amazon.com/iEvac-only-American-Certified-Smoke/dp/B00812AEDW/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?keywords=ievac+smoke+hood&qid=1567789624&s=gateway&sprefix=ievac&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyREQxTFo5WDBLU1c2JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjA1Mzc4MURaSjRHNllGQlpDVCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDk3NTY0QzRONEdOSEYwQldXJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfcGhvbmVfc2VhcmNoX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

Side benefit is that you’ll be prepared for the zombie apocalypse as well.


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[kortopates]

20 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

I called our local Solan dealer who does most of the fire extinguisher servicing in the area. They said they don't stock Halon and only sell the bottles similar to Spruce. So servicing one may not be practical.

-Robert

Hedrick Fire Protection (866-306-8130) says they can refill Halon portables, but they send it to their HQ in Chino, CA and it takes 1-2 weeks.

I am still using a non refillable unit at 0.8 lbs for Halon that I thought I would eventually upgrade to a refillable one when  it expires. But the smallest refillables are at 1.25 lbs and since mine hasn't lost pressure since 2011 I have yet to make the move. Given the longevity I might just stick with the the non-refillable since they are also exempt from what I thought was a mandatory 6 yr hydro test (if that applies to the small portables).

[RobertGary1]

1 minute ago, kortopates said:

Hedrick Fire Protection (866-306-8130) says they can refill Halon portables, but they send it to their HQ in Chino, CA and it takes 1-2 weeks.

I am still using a non refillable unit at 0.8 lbs for Halon that I thought I would eventually upgrade to a refillable one when  it expires. But the smallest refillables are at 1.25 lbs and since mine hasn't lost pressure since 2011 I have yet to make the move. Given the longevity I might just stick with the the non-refillable since they are also exempt from what I thought was a mandatory 6 yr hydro test (if that applies to the small portables).

You probably have the same one I had until last week. I grabbed it out of the seat back and noticed it felt like an empty soda can. No idea where the Halon went but I guess after 15 years I can't complain.  If I got a disposable one again I'd start weighing it at annual. 

-Robert

[kortopates]

1 minute ago, Marauder said:

 

And one of these: https://www.amazon.com/iEvac-only-American-Certified-Smoke/dp/B00812AEDW/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?keywords=ievac+smoke+hood&qid=1567789624&s=gateway&sprefix=ievac&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyREQxTFo5WDBLU1c2JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjA1Mzc4MURaSjRHNllGQlpDVCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDk3NTY0QzRONEdOSEYwQldXJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfcGhvbmVfc2VhcmNoX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

Side benefit is that you’ll be prepared for the zombie apocalypse as well.


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I don't know exactly, but I have heard first hand encounters that opening the side window in the Mooney vents smoke instantly. That assumes the source has been extinguished and may not be sufficient to get a burning plane on the ground from altitude. But nevertheless I found that re-assuring and just passing it on for what its worth.

[kortopates]

Just now, RobertGary1 said:

You probably have the same one I had until last week. I grabbed it out of the seat back and noticed it felt like an empty soda can. No idea where the Halon went but I guess after 15 years I can't complain.  If I got a disposable one again I'd start weighing it at annual. 

-Robert

That's exactly what I did, I have a label with the original weight in oz and date installed. I re-weight it annually.  Its secured with a bracket on the floor behind emergency gear release.

[RobertGary1]

1 minute ago, kortopates said:

I don't know exactly, but I have heard first hand encounters that opening the side window in the Mooney vents smoke instantly. That assumes the source has been extinguished and may not be sufficient to get a burning plane on the ground from altitude. But nevertheless I found that re-assuring and just passing it on for what its worth.

When I open my ceiling air scope I can move enough air to blow your hair back. Cracking the door would probably do a good job too. In the Cessna 140 I'd open the door all the time when it was hot. It sucked the hot air out very quickly.

-Robert

[gsxrpilot]

58 minutes ago, kortopates said:

Hedrick Fire Protection (866-306-8130) says they can refill Halon portables, but they send it to their HQ in Chino, CA and it takes 1-2 weeks.

I am still using a non refillable unit at 0.8 lbs for Halon that I thought I would eventually upgrade to a refillable one when  it expires. But the smallest refillables are at 1.25 lbs and since mine hasn't lost pressure since 2011 I have yet to make the move. Given the longevity I might just stick with the the non-refillable since they are also exempt from what I thought was a mandatory 6 yr hydro test (if that applies to the small portables).

Which specific model are you using?

[Marauder]

 

52 minutes ago, kortopates said:

I don't know exactly, but I have heard first hand encounters that opening the side window in the Mooney vents smoke instantly. That assumes the source has been extinguished and may not be sufficient to get a burning plane on the ground from altitude. But nevertheless I found that re-assuring and just passing it on for what its worth.

The concern I have with a fire is that opening a window or door while the fire is still present (either in the panel or under the cowling) will just most likely keep providing for an air source to feed the fire and draw the flames into the cockpit. Anyone want to set off a smoke bomb in their plane and provide a first hand account of what actually happens? 

I've only seen one cockpit fire. An experimental who had a wiring fire on the ground while taxiing. There was enough smoke to make me go out and get a smoke mask. 

[RobertGary1]

16 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

The concern I have with a fire is that opening a window or door while the fire is still present (either in the panel or under the cowling) will just most likely keep providing for an air source to feed the fire and draw the flames into the cockpit. Anyone want to set off a smoke bomb in their plane and provide a first hand account of what actually happens? 

I've only seen one cockpit fire. An experimental who had a wiring fire on the ground while taxiing. There was enough smoke to make me go out and get a smoke mask. 

I do have a mask. Its about 15 years old so I'm not sure if it would still work. I think they say you should replace it ever couple of years but I don't know why.

-Robert

[kortopates]

16 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Which specific model are you using?

I am using this unit from Spruce with 0.9 lbs of Halon https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/rta400.php

Still going strong many years after installing, although per their reviews, not everyone has been as fortunate.

[kortopates]

19 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

The concern I have with a fire is that opening a window or door while the fire is still present (either in the panel or under the cowling) will just most likely keep providing for an air source to feed the fire and draw the flames into the cockpit. Anyone want to set off a smoke bomb in their plane and provide a first hand account of what actually happens? 

I've only seen one cockpit fire. An experimental who had a wiring fire on the ground while taxiing. There was enough smoke to make me go out and get a smoke mask. 

Electrical fires do call for opening the cabin ventilation - after turning off the master. Your earlier POH may not cover this, but here is an excerpt from the Encore:

[RobertGary1]

Thank goodness the checklist says to land as soon as possible. I'd have forgotten that part. I guess that part was added by legal and why our checklists get so long.

-Robert

[MARZ]

Not an expert by any means, however, has anyone considered the incapacitating effects of the fire extinguisher that's discharged in a confined space especially during flight? 

All of the "Clean Agent" extinguishers work by taking away one component of the fire triangle - Oxygen 

  

[kortopates]

37 minutes ago, MARZ said:

Not an expert by any means, however, has anyone considered the incapacitating effects of the fire extinguisher that's discharged in a confined space especially during flight? 

All of the "Clean Agent" extinguishers work by taking away one component of the fire triangle - Oxygen 

  

That's why we're mostly discussing halon, check this out: https://www.h3rcleanagents.com/support_faq_2.htm

Also see FAA AC 20-42D which specifically approves of the blended Halon 1211 and Halon 1301 for both part 91 and part 125 aircraft use:  https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_20-42D.pdf

 

Although its conceivable that we might need to extinguish a fire in the cockpit in flight, its unlikely given most cockpit fires are the result of an electrical short that can usually be quickly extinguished by turning off the master. We'll usually smell smoke before a fire gets out of hand given the fire retardant material used in the cockpit. The more dangerous engine fire, such as from a exhaust leak or turbo failure, isn't going to be helped by a fire extinguisher in the cockpit in flight, but after an emergency descent to an off airport landing and after any off airport landing it can make all the difference in egressing out the cockpit over perhaps a burning wing from fuel that will also likely be draining into the cockpit area. Egressing a burning plane I do expect would be a much more common usage for our cockpit fire extinguisher than in the confined cockpit at altitude. Yet we can still replenish the cabin air in flight very quickly when needed. 

Edited September 6, 2019 by kortopates

[alextstone]

33 minutes ago, kortopates said:

That's why we're mostly discussing halon, check this out: https://www.h3rcleanagents.com/support_faq_2.htm

Also see FAA AC 20-42D which specifically approves of the blended Halon 1211 and Halon 1301 for both part 91 and part 125 aircraft use:  https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_20-42D.pdf

 

Although its conceivable that we might need to extinguish a fire in the cockpit in flight, its unlikely given most cockpit fires are the result of an electrical short that can usually be quickly extinguished by turning off the master. We'll usually smell smoke before a fire gets out of hand given the fire retardant material used in the cockpit. The more dangerous engine fire, such as from a exhaust leak or turbo failure, isn't going to be helped by a fire extinguisher in the cockpit in flight, but after an emergency descent to an off airport landing and after any off airport landing it can make all the difference in egressing out the cockpit over perhaps a burning wing from fuel that will also likely be draining into the cockpit area. Egressing a burning plane I do expect would be a much more common usage for our cockpit fire extinguisher than in the confined cockpit at altitude. Yet we can still replenish the cabin air in flight very quickly when needed. 

Is there an STC'ed fire suppression system for Mooney engine compartments?

[kortopates]

2 minutes ago, alextstone said:

Is there an STC'ed fire suppression system for Mooney engine compartments?

Not that I know of. As far as I am aware of, none exist in the GA single piston world. They certainly exist in the multi-turbine world but I am not sure at what level, weight or seat capacity, they begin. For our part 91 purposes, the above AC provides guidance on what is FAA approved by referencing industry standards.

[EricJ]

3 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

That's just a sodium bicarbonate extinguisher. Can't you get those cheap at the hardware store? I thought the reason those aren't for aviation is because you don't want to breath what it puts out.

-Robert 

There are lots of reasons to not use those in an enclosed space.

I helped put out an engine fire on a Cessna 340 during a ground run a few months ago using a sodium bicarb extinguisher.   This was outside in the open air, and it got very hard to breath for a while.   We had to walk a ways upwind to be able to breath again.   There's no way I'd want to deal with one of those going off in the cabin of a small plane.

The main fuel line fitting just on the forward side of the rear baffle was leaking, just below where the baffle gasket turned black.