What would you do?

[alex]

About 2 weeks ago I arrived at the airport, parked my car and noticed my next door neighbor taking what I beleive to be a flying club Cherokee out. I do my pre-flight, take the plane out, close the hangar door start the engine and patiently wait for Cherokee man to go. Finally he inches forward then stops, opens his door, signals  to me that he will right back WHILE HIS ENGINE IS IDLING AND NO ONE IS IN THE AIRPLANE, goes into his hangar and gets his headphones. While this is going on I am wondering if this is really happening and just like that, he gets into the airplane and goes.

Would you contact owner and snitch on this dumbass?

Am I being judgemental? after all his parking brake worked quite well.

[FuriousPhoen1x]

How uptight are you?

Engine at idle doesn't pull me ANYWHERE, or make the airplane go....

[bnicolette]

 

 

[bnicolette]

I certainly don't think I would narc him out. 

It sure wasn't the best decision and I hate to think about what else this character might do??  It wouldnt have taken much to shut down and start back up again but perhaps he felt rushed and did t want to hold you up any longer than hr had to??  Still doesn't make it right but, I guess it takes all kinds

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

[Ned Gravel]

I think it is a safety thing.  Prop going around in circles and no one at the controls = Recipe for disaster.  There is a reason it is in the regs somewhere.

This actually happened at my former home drome about six years ago.  When the court cases were all settled (damage only - no injuries) the owner of the idling (and vacated) aircraft lost their license and the owner of the damaged aircraft spent two years not flying.

 

[jetdriven]

I agree that is a serious safety violation.  You can pull the mixture, and get back in and crank it up in two seconds.  An unattended aircraft not tied down is bad enough, leaving it running is a serious matter.  There's a reason our insurance rates are so high.

[lahso]

I would speak to the club president (if there is such) or a board member, a CFI in the club, or your local FAASteam rep. If all of those are unavailablle, speak with the airport manager. I belong to a flying club, and our members would be interested to know if that type behaviour is going on. I'm a FAASteam rep, so if you need help finding one in your area, let me know.

[bnicolette]

How about just talking to the pilot if you could find out who it is?  Maybe an inexperienced newbie that just needs a little insight. I would hate to lose yet another active pilot. If he cops a bad attitude then maybe go the other direction. Always better to confront somebody directly......at least that is my two cents.  We have all made some stupid mistakes and I know I am personally a product of everybody that has helped me out, especially in aviation. 

[jelswick]

Agree Brett.  This was really a dumb___ move on that pilot's part, but confront the person first to give them an opportunity to tell their side.  If just a stupid mistake, help them learn why and hope it won't happen again.  Any attitude about it, then escalate it.  We had one customer where we had someone coming th next week to buy his Tiger and he had to cancel the sale because he was out of the aircraft with it idling and it decided to move forward shredding the side of an SUV (at least it was his own).  Never, ever should the pilot get out of the plane with the engine running; I won't even let pilot passengers do that because of fear of a never expected trip or slip that could result in something you can't undo after the fact.

[jackn]

I wonder that he started up his plane without his headset. He must have said ' golly, this plane sounds loud today'.

[jax88]

I agree with the idea of attempting to speak with the pilot.  Take this as an opportunity to impart a little wisdom upon a fellow pilot.

[Cruiser]

I don't condone this action, it speaks of the general attitude of the pilot to caution and safety not to mention his insensitivity to others waiting on him.

BUT......

how unsafe was it? really. IF you want to do anything, speak to the pilot about safety and concern for others. That is the only action that has any value.

[sleepingsquirrel]

 I hate finding something valuable, I know it's not mine, but I also know the odds of it finding its rightful owner in the hands of someone else are just as good as if I held it. Therefore,  I try never to find anything valuable because of the dilimma. What does this have to do with this thread? Nothing!

If you had not been witness to this event,would it still have happened? Would the outcome have been the same? Is one occurrence worthy of having to always be perfect, or.......run the risk of having this person trying to correct your mistake or poor judgement? (usually this does not work well except between instructor and student) On a crowded ramp with children and invalids this might deserve a discussion with the pilot. Otherwise he will just point out that people hand prop their planes all the time and have no one in the cockpit. Many great airshow acts are based on this premise.

Just think to yourself  "I would NEVER do that"

(Even after a particularly difficult hot start with an already low battery, and the airplane will not move because the low battery distracted you and you forgot to remove the chocks from the MAIN gear which you vividly remember putting there now that the balky airplane will not move)

 

[jetdriven]

Under any circumstance I think an FAA inspector would be able to win a case against the person for "careless and reckless".   People hand prop their planes, yes, and I think many tie them down or chock them, at least have some kind of procedure.  It is a necessity. They are for the most part less than 100 HP airplanes also.

I started mine up the other day and reached for my headset. It was locked in the bag compartment. So I did the right thing, pulled the mixture, took the key got my bag.  In front of 5 witnesses a couple of them ATP's and jet pilots.  All laughing inside I suppose.  If I forgot to tie it down, Run it for a few mins to charge the batery, and then kill it to remove the chocks.  Or drive over them. (Cant do that in a Cirrus)  Shutting down an engine for a couple minutes its super easy to start back up.

Quote: sleepingsquirrel

If you had not been witness to this event,would it still have happened? Would the outcome have been the same? Is one occurrence worthy of having to always be perfect, or.......run the risk of having this person trying to correct your mistake or poor judgement? (usually this does not work well except between instructor and student) On a crowded ramp with children and invalids this might deserve a discussion with the pilot. Otherwise he will just point out that people hand prop their planes all the time and have no one in the cockpit. Many great airshow acts are based on this premise.

Just think to yourself  "I would NEVER do that"

(Even after a particularly difficult hot start with an already low battery, and the airplane will not move because the low battery distracted you and you forgot to remove the chocks from the MAIN gear which you vividly remember putting there now that the balky airplane will not move)

 

[alex]

Quote: FuriousPhoen1x

How uptight are you?

Engine at idle doesn't pull me ANYWHERE, or make the airplane go....

[Cris]

If you feel compelled to bring this to the pilots attention when I teach, I like to use a "story" to make the point in a non offensive way. Consider the next time you see this guy you say. "Hey the other day I saw you hop out of your plane to get your headset while the engine was running. Did'nt think anything of it at the time but coincidently I just read about a guy that did that exact same thing & the A/C moved while he was out of it & ran into .... Hope you did'nt rush on my account" 

[sleepingsquirrel]

Quote: alex

Would you contact owner and snitch on this dumbass?

Am I being judgemental? after all his parking brake worked quite well.

[sleepingsquirrel]

Quote: Cris

....., I like to use a "story" to make the point in a non offensive way. Consider the next time you see this guy you say. "Hey the other day I saw you hop out of your plane to get your headset while the engine was running. Did'nt think anything of it at the time but coincidently I just read about a guy that did that exact same thing & the A/C moved while he was out of it & ran into .... Hope you did'nt rush on my account" 

[sleepingsquirrel]

Quote: jetdriven

[fantom]

He did a dumb thing Alex.

You be courageous and talk to him in a non-confrontational manner soon. Ratting him out to somebody else and expecting them to take action is unrealistic.

Good luck!

 

[Skywarrior]

Silly little 'dumb' mistakes can nevertheless get someone KILLED.

I lost FIFTEEN friends during one overseas tour due to 'dumb mistakes'.

I would have chewed his ass out right there, and reported his actions to the club mgr.

Aviation is not a game. It can be very deadly. I've already attended too many funerals.

 

Chuck M.

[sleepingsquirrel]

Quote: Skywarrior

.

I would have chewed his ass out right there, and reported his actions to the club mgr.

 

 

Chuck M.

[Immelman]

I second the recommendation to find your local FAAST team leader and get a recommendtation for a FAAST team rep who might serve as a counselor. No harm, no foul, and little egg on the face this way. Well, I would hope so anyway.

[Shadrach]

I think I'd just ask him if he thought it was safe and why... Why all the need to find and inform a perceived authority figure?   Is it codified in the regs as illegal?  What recourse would said perceived authority figure have?

I have departed my plane for short times while it was idling on a few occasions, and it's always a been a non issue...

Twice during solo jump starts and the one and only time I forgot to latch the baggage door.

The procedure is is quite simple.

1) throttle to idle (about 800RPM is lowest I'll idle a lyc 4cyl)

2) Depress and lock parking brake

3) Throttle back up to test the parking brake. If it holds at >= 1700rpm then proceed to step 4, if not then you've additional issues...  

4) Throttle back to idle

5) Take care of whatever it is that needs to be attended to quickly. 

6) All people always stay behind the wing.

I do not think that the FAA would say boo about this unless there was an incident/accident, and then as with almost all things aviation, we know were the responsibility lies. 

[kgbpost]

You call the Feds and you better be darn sure ready for a ramp check yourself. They don't discriminate. I think you have experienced what i would term an annoyance. Thankfully, it is considerably less frequent on the tarmac than on the freeway.

 That could make a great new thread though...Whats the dumbest thing you've ever seen someone do in an airplane that didn't end tragically....I once watched a guy, a CFI none the less, try to land a Supercub on the last 200' of a 4000' foot runway because the winds had come up. He ground looped it to avoid going off the end, miraculously didn't scratch a thing, and then slowly taxiied to the ramp. I didn't have the balls to go talk to him after he shut down, besides I had already pissed myself for him.