Stan Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 I replied to a thread a few months ago on aircraft ownership with: This is my sixth plane in 30+ years of ownwership. Two Cessna's, two Piper's, and two Mooney's (two J's). In reading the replies, there are two types of owners, one will keep meticulous records and the other just keeps paying (and affords) the bills. I like to work on my planes so that helps keep maintenance costs down. That will be my only comment on actual costs. I stopped keeping records 25+ years ago, so my wife wouldn't see. Now, as people find, the plane and expenses become part of the family, good memories, and budget. As bonal said: "Don’t overthink it, if it's what you want to do find a way and dive in the waters fine." 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 Com2 went TU- flying home asked the wife what she wanted to do with it. She asked what my airplane budget was and I laughed. I was able to properly maintain - but not upgrade - on a resident salary with moonlighting cash I made on the side to satisfy the flying habit. I was budget conscious but I had two “pots”. Mooney moonlighting and everything else. The idea of an overhaul at next annual would have been doable but not comfortable. To be able to properly budget for these birds you need to be willing to essentially put a new Honda Civic’s worth of maintenance and flying into it to keep it going. Every year. And be willing to put an extra Honda Civic or two into it in case you need an engine overhaul. I thought avaiation budgets were crazy. Then my buddy who has a P-baron mentioned his unexpected overhaul and 3.5 AMU door seal and I thought that was crazy. Then I met some boaters (cruisers) this week and now I truly know crazy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 If you cant stroke a check for 65K at the drop of a hat, a P-Baron is not for you. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 16 hours ago, ArtVandelay said: What could go wrong with fuel nozzles? Tom Well the line threads were buggerd on one of them. New fuel line .050 AMU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Junkin Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 Ok, so here it is if you really want to do it. Go to http://www.themooneyflyer.com, look under "cool tools", and download the Cost of Ownership spreadsheet. I THINK that's where this cam from, but here is a screenshot of my unadulterated numbers for my M20M: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 Thats probably about right. an E/F/J model is probably $120 an hour. The C model can be 100$. Repairs extra. Ours was 36K for an engine the first year, and another 10K per year for minor upgrades etc, then 35K for radios. Also, there seems to be a sudden shock to owners who buy a plane with no Garmin or equivalent big screen GPS and ADS-B. This costs a MINIMUM of 15K and can double very quickly. GNS430W 6500$. indicator 2K. labor 3-4K. ADS-0B transpondeer 3K. install 1K.. Don't get surprised by this. Factor it into any plane you're about to buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40-0Flight Posted March 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Junkman said: Ok, so here it is if you really want to do it. Go to http://www.themooneyflyer.com, look under "cool tools", and download the Cost of Ownership spreadsheet. I THINK that's where this cam from, but here is a screenshot of my unadulterated numbers for my M20M: Nice.. I knew I couldn't have been the first person to build something like this! After further review, I'm more confident my spread sheet works as desired now... My numbers are damn near identical, when I put in the same variables. To me at least that is promising Edited March 1, 2019 by 40-0Flight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toto Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 I once read a comment about turbine ownership that went something like "Go to the bank, take out $10,000 in cash, and light it on fire. If that bothers you, you can't afford a jet." I think the same is true for piston ownership, but it's more like $1000. If you aren't comfortable just torching a grand for no reason and with no notice, then you probably shouldn't own an airplane. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 Beechtalk has some "cost of ownership" threads. One 421 guy spends 100K a year on the plane, no repairs, 200 hours per year. . MU2 guys spend similar, less hours, similar miles, more on fuel and less on maintenance (particularly engines). Extreme reliability. SETP guys (TBM, Piper Meridian, etc) spend a similar amount, less of fuel, similar maintenance as a MU2, and more on capital expense cost (>1M hull cost). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40-0Flight Posted March 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) Updated screen shot for those interested: Edited March 1, 2019 by 40-0Flight Error in image 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 Hey Byron... Congrats! You passed the 10kth post line... (I just noticed the big round number ) Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 Take half, throw it out. Then take ten percent of whats left, and remember, my advice is worth what it costs. But remember I did unzip a wing rib and shim it to match a template i made, before profiling the entire wing. then i closed out the ram air for the newer style stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 Prepping for race season there, Byron? Fastest four seat, factory built, NA IO360, plane on and/or off the planet... looking better every year. or that was taken before the fancy paint? Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 before fancy paint. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney-Mark Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 I burn 9.5 GH at $5.00/gal.....so $47.50/hr, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40-0Flight Posted March 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 11 minutes ago, Mooney-Mark said: I burn 9.5 GH at $5.00/gal.....so $47.50/hr, right? Sounds like a good start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 Siri says your math is good... Then she urged you to find a better price on gas.... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 Updated screen shot for those interested: Mine is a little different. When I first got the plane 28 years ago, I was living paycheck to paycheck. I have fields for entering costs on the fly (pun intended) and they do the summary for the monthly and yearly costs as well as a calculated cost per hour. What I typically do these days is run a Quicken monthly and update the spreadsheet with the monthly values which then does the YTD and cost/hr calculations.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1964-M20E Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 Once you own a plane close your eyes and put fuel in it then fly like you stole it. Whatever the fuel is that is what it costs to fly. Now about that helicopter?? Where is that cost calculator spread sheet I've been looking for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldguy Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 The CAPEX costs are the ones that can bite you and, like someone said above, end up rendering your plane a hangar queen, slowly dying. It is great to have reserves for engine, avionics, etc. except when something catastrophic happens before the time you planned. Cracking a case on the plane you bought 100 hours ago or others items requiring a 5-digit immediate outlay can be terrifying, so many choose not think about it. But if you don't have the credit card, home equity line, checkbook, or bank balance to bite that large bullet, consider how you would handle such a problem. Some search for the absolute best (read "cheapest") deal they can find thinking they will have some money left over to do some upgrades to their new plane. Not always true. @gsxrpilothas a list of bad buys where a "deal" ate away at the new owner to the tune of way more money than expected. I think a few paid less for the purchase of the plane than they did on maintenance the first year. I consider myself very fortunate in that my wife was the one who suggested we get the Mooney and upgrade from the Cezzna. It also helps she has horses, so the plane seems relatively inexpensive at times! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austintatious Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 I jsut downloaded this spreadsheet and I am confused on 1 thing. I noticed the monthly and yearly "financing cost" were wrong after my inputs. To try to figure it out, I changed the purchase price to $1.00 and the interest rate to .01% (it will not let you put 0) I still show a financing cost of $3400.00 per year when i dont have any loan to pay entered into the program! What am I missing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immelman Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 Don't overcomplicate this. Take the hourly fuel cost. Multiply by 3-4x. Now you have a total hourly operating cost that will be in the ball park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austintatious Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 yea yea, I get that... I am just playing with this spreadsheet and noticed the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40-0Flight Posted March 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Oldguy said: I consider myself very fortunate in that my wife was the one who suggested we get the Mooney and upgrade from the Cezzna. It also helps she has horses, so the plane seems relatively inexpensive at times! Your plane vs her horses.... I think what you have here is a Mexican stand off! Maybe the Mooney suggestion was to distract you from the new horses that just "appeared". lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40-0Flight Posted March 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Austintatious said: I jsut downloaded this spreadsheet and I am confused on 1 thing. I noticed the monthly and yearly "financing cost" were wrong after my inputs. To try to figure it out, I changed the purchase price to $1.00 and the interest rate to .01% (it will not let you put 0) I still show a financing cost of $3400.00 per year when i dont have any loan to pay entered into the program! What am I missing? I'm still working on a better way to handle and represent that... but in short.. if you own the plane already... you simply ignore the Top two sections of "Total host (w/Financing) and (Financing Cost) I will play with your scenario a little and see how it looks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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