O2 Capillary Line - 231

[JRam]

My maintenance shop is running in to problems locating an O2 Capillary line for my 83 (late 83 with many 84 updates) M20K. Anyone know where I can point them?

 

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[anthonydesmet]

JRam,

call Dan at Lazar salvage.  If he can’t he will put you in touch with someone that can.  I had a rack in the fitting at the end of my capillary and the guys name that Dan gave me is in my logbook that I can’t get to until this weekend.

[anthonydesmet]

Just now, anthonydesmet said:

JRam,

call Dan at Lazar salvage.  If he can’t he will put you in touch with someone that can.  I had a rack in the fitting at the end of my capillary and the guys name that Dan gave me is in my logbook that I can’t get to until this weekend.

Crack not rack*

[Marauder]

My maintenance shop is running in to problems locating an O2 Capillary line for my 83 (late 83 with many 84 updates) M20K. Anyone know where I can point them?
 
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What material and dimension is it?


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[JRam]

What material and dimension is it?


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Oh man, let me see if I can get that info.

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[larryb]

Why do you need a new one? I would think any issue could be repaired and not replaced.

[N201MKTurbo]

I think Spruce has the tubing and ends. You just have to solder it yourself.

[Marauder]

Oh man, let me see if I can get that info.

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Depending on the material, you can find it at various suppliers. If it is copper (suspect it will be less than 1/4”, probably 1/8”), Aircraft Spruce will sell it.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/mepages/coptubing.php?clickkey=4819

You will also need fittings they can be found here:
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/search/search.php?s=Compression%20fittings

If they used stainless steel, you can find them at Aircraft Spruce as well. Harder to work with as you will need bending guides, cutters and other fittings.


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[Marauder]

And BTW, I suspect they are all compression fittings. Take some pictures, a few of us have worked with compressed gases before.


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[larryb]

It is 1/8 inch copper tube and brass Swagelok compressions fittings. A couple fittings are brazed on, but for the most part any repair could use compression fittings. 

You can buy the Swagelok fittings on-line. The series is "B-200". The "B" stands for Brass. You do have to create an account to see pricing. The B-200-6 would be a 1/8" union.

https://www.swagelok.com/en/catalog/Product/Detail?part=B-200-6

https://www.swagelok.com/en/product/Fittings/Tube-Fittings-and-Tube-Adapters

[JRam]

So not sure what is going on with this mechanic, but he says he isnt allowed to repair the tube and he has to buy the part with fittings already on because of the pressure. He can only find it direct from mooney for $400 and a 130 day lead time. I asked him for the part number and I'll see if I can either find it myself or find a new location to work it. I dont have good experiences with shops up here.

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[carusoam]

 

JRam,

See if you can supply a pic of the offending part...

The entire O2 system is made of off the shelf parts that are not Mooney specific...

Realistically, it would be nice to say it was always maintained to MSC standards... but 120 days for standard industrial parts is a bit odd. Especially if it is standard copper tube...

 

To add to the challenge Mooney has used two different suppliers of compression fittings over the years...

So don’t mix parts of fittings from one supplier to the next... they can sort of match, but not really... like re-using ferrules...

 

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[larryb]

Here is the M20K Oxygen section from the IPC.

Your mechanics explanation makes no sense to me.  I'd like to hear the opinion of one of our resident A&P's. The whole system is built out of Swagelok connectors and Scott components at the Mooney factory. I doubt you could snake the tube through the fuselage with the connectors on anyway, they have to be installed in the field.

I'd still like to know what the defect is that he feels warrents replacing the tube. Did it chafe against something and rub through?

 

M20K_oxygen.pdf

[JRam]

Here is the M20K Oxygen section from the IPC.
Your mechanics explanation makes no sense to me.  I'd like to hear the opinion of one of our resident A&P's. The whole system is built out of Swagelok connectors and Scott components at the Mooney factory. I doubt you could snake the tube through the fuselage with the connectors on anyway, they have to be installed in the field.
I'd still like to know what the defect is that he feels warrents replacing the tube. Did it chafe against something and rub through?
 
M20K_oxygen.pdf

He only said it's a leak in the line. I haven't had a chance to look at the issue myself as they had to take the side panel to get to it.

Thank you all for your help on this, I'm clueless. I have some help from Savvy but i think they are pretty frustrated with the mechanic as well. It started when he refused to fill the oxygen tank unless it was sent away to be cleaned because it was empty for a couple weeks.

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[Marauder]

So not sure what is going on with this mechanic, but he says he isnt allowed to repair the tube and he has to buy the part with fittings already on because of the pressure. He can only find it direct from mooney for $400 and a 130 day lead time. I asked him for the part number and I'll see if I can either find it myself or find a new location to work it. I dont have good experiences with shops up here.

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I agree with Larry. Your mechanic is probably lacking experience working with Swagelok compression fittings and oxygen supply lines. With an O2 system, you need to make sure the tubing and fittings are all oil free. As well, you need to make sure the compression fitting is made up correctly and leak free. It is really not difficult.

You may find different fittings in the supply line you are working with. There may be a bulkhead fitting like this.



Or T or quad fittings like this T fitting.



Making up the fitting is pretty straightforward. You place the compression nut, backing ferrule and ferrule on the copper tube first.





Then insert the tube fully into the fitting (bulkhead union, T or quad) and push the nut and ferrule up to the thread and tighten. Being careful not to overtighten.


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[carusoam]

Search for swagelock snoop... it is a leak finding, bubble making solution....

If you have an O2 leak... this is how it gets found...

Fixing the leak depends on what is not working...

Best regards,

-a-

[JRam]

I agree with Larry. Your mechanic is probably lacking experience working with Swagelok compression fittings and oxygen supply lines. With an O2 system, you need to make sure the tubing and fittings are all oil free. As well, you need to make sure the compression fitting is made up correctly and leak free. It is really not difficult.

You may find different fittings in the supply line you are working with. There may be a bulkhead fitting like this.



Or T or quad fittings like this T fitting.



Making up the fitting is pretty straightforward. You place the compression nut, backing ferrule and ferrule on the copper tube first.





Then insert the tube fully into the fitting (bulkhead union, T or quad) and push the nut and ferrule up to the thread and tighten. Being careful not to overtighten.


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You all are amazing! This really helps! Thank you!

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[carusoam]

Other MSers looking for leaks... using snoop...

 

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

He only said it's a leak in the line. I haven't had a chance to look at the issue myself as they had to take the side panel to get to it.

Thank you all for your help on this, I'm clueless. I have some help from Savvy but i think they are pretty frustrated with the mechanic as well. It started when he refused to fill the oxygen tank unless it was sent away to be cleaned because it was empty for a couple weeks.

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If it is just a leak, it probably is a loose fitting, a tube attached to a fitting that has cracked or crack In the line itself.

With oxygen, you just need to make sure any oils, greases are kept away from it. The best way to check for leaks is a gas leak detector. Most shops won’t have one. The second best way is to pressure the system and see if it will hold pressure. You don’t want to use soaps, even synthetic ones like Dawn because they contain petroleum distillates.


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[Marauder]

Search for swagelock snoop... it is a leak finding, bubble making solution....
If you have an O2 leak... this is how it gets found...
Fixing the leak depends on what is not working...
Best regards,
-a-

Snoop is sold on Amazon. You can get a small squeeze bottle of it for $8. Back in the day, you could only get Snoop from a scientific supply house.


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[larryb]

I battled leaks for a year in my Encore. When I bought it it would not hold pressure more than a few days. There were several problems. One was a leak in the capillary tube at the fill port. Some previous mechanic had over-tightened the fitting, bottoming out the nut and crushing the ferrule inside. I found it with the leak detector liquid below and replaced it with a new Swagelok fitting. The Swagelok catalog has detailed instructions on how to tighten the fittings correctly. 

My final leak was hard to find. It was the tank valve. It did not show up with the detector fluid. The shutoff was not always shutting off, even though it was adjusted correctly. It was leaking into the cabin plumbing and fittings, and those are known to be leaky no matter what. The valve had to be overhauled. 

https://www.amazon.com/Nu-Calgon-4182-24-Detector-Bottle-1-Quart/dp/B00E0Q03KM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1549415043&sr=8-1&keywords=cal+blue+leak+detector

[peevee]

13 hours ago, JRam said:

It started when he refused to fill the oxygen tank unless it was sent away to be cleaned because it was empty for a couple weeks.

 

This is when you should have told him to stop working, put the plane back together, and call you when it's ready to pick up 

[DonMuncy]

15 hours ago, JRam said:

 It started when he refused to fill the oxygen tank unless it was sent away to be cleaned because it was empty for a couple weeks.
 

I forget where I saw it, but I have also read where one is supposed to clean the tank if it has been emptied (for some period of time?).

I think this is pretty stupid unless someone has opened up the tank so something other than oxygen can get in. 

[Marauder]

I forget where I saw it, but I have also read where one is supposed to clean the tank if it has been emptied (for some period of time?).

I think this is pretty stupid unless someone has opened up the tank so something other than oxygen can get in. 

 

I think the mechanic he is working with is just not informed. It is highly unlikely anything will get into an empty tank. If the tank were to leak out, any contaminants would find it pretty hard to get into the tank.

 

If the tank is run to the normal empty level (

 

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[N201MKTurbo]

The thought about empty cylinders is common in the scuba industry, but with scuba, empty cylinders may have the valve open and be dropped in the ocean. A far cry from sitting in the back of an airplane connected to a sealed system.