KB4 Posted December 7, 2018 Report Posted December 7, 2018 Right as I said gascolator 1 per month per manual. Tanks every preflight. Notice comma. Quote
jaylw314 Posted December 7, 2018 Report Posted December 7, 2018 On 12/7/2018 at 12:35 AM, MooneyMartian9 said: Right as I said gascolator 1 per month per manual. Tanks every preflight. Notice comma. Expand I was just surprised because my '86 J POH simply lists the gascolator as a preflight item, but does not say anything about doing it only once a month... Quote
LANCECASPER Posted December 7, 2018 Report Posted December 7, 2018 On 12/7/2018 at 12:29 AM, MooneyMartian9 said: Nice piece of mind. Expand Hopefully you meant peace of mind. Quote
carusoam Posted December 7, 2018 Report Posted December 7, 2018 I am hoping to learn something from the ‘monthly’ procedure... Why is it monthly? Is there anything else that gets a monthly time frame... I am familiar with... Every flight First flight of the day 100 hour annual But, the only monthly one was to check the tire pressure, with the old tubes I had... more of a monthly top-off because it was necessary... Best regards, -a- Quote
KB4 Posted December 12, 2018 Report Posted December 12, 2018 After reading a few NTSB reports about contaminated fuel and the consequences to the pilots, I could never fathom WHY any pilot, especially a MSer wouldn't sump. Don't just dump the 100LL on the ground, use it as a cleaner. Not on your bird of course! Quote
KB4 Posted December 12, 2018 Report Posted December 12, 2018 On 12/7/2018 at 1:42 AM, jaylw314 said: I was just surprised because my '86 J POH simply lists the gascolator as a preflight item, but does not say anything about doing it only once a month... Expand I believe you are correct. Section 8 my POH lists the same. I know for a fact I was told once per month my at least 2 Mooney owners, and I follow that procedure. But clearly common sense plays a role, if you are refueling at a random field or getting unbranded fuel, well then you must sump. Quote
ilovecornfields Posted December 12, 2018 Author Report Posted December 12, 2018 On 12/12/2018 at 2:48 AM, MooneyMartian9 said: After reading a few NTSB reports about contaminated fuel and the consequences to the pilots, I could never fathom WHY any pilot, especially a MSer wouldn't sump. Don't just dump the 100LL on the ground, use it as a cleaner. Not on your bird of course! Expand Since reading this thread I’ve started to use it in my coffee! I think it’s easy to understand why you wouldn’t sump your drain. If you’re alive and reading Mooneyspace, then it probably hasn’t happened to you yet. Come to think of it, a lot of things we check for are pretty low probability events. I’ve only found a couple of things on preflight that made me not fly so I could probably skip that most of the time. Draining fuel - I’ve never pulled anything off other then 100 LL so I could probably skip that. And let’s be honest - checking the weather is a waste a lot of the time as well since most of it will show up on the iPad once you’re in the air. And let’s not forget to mention you can get in the air a lot faster if you skip that silly runup.... Wow! Think of all the time I just saved! P.S. - I don’t know how to do the green font thing so please imagine a green font as you’re reading the above. Quote
jaylw314 Posted December 12, 2018 Report Posted December 12, 2018 On 12/12/2018 at 4:31 AM, ilovecornfields said: P.S. - I don’t know how to do the green font thing so please imagine a green font as you’re reading the above. Expand Did I miss the boat or something? Does Green Font = sarcasm? Quote
ArtVandelay Posted December 12, 2018 Report Posted December 12, 2018 On 12/12/2018 at 8:01 AM, jaylw314 said: Did I miss the boat or something? Does Green Font = sarcasm? Beechtalk method of denoting sarcastic comments. Quote
ArtVandelay Posted December 12, 2018 Report Posted December 12, 2018 On 12/12/2018 at 2:48 AM, MooneyMartian9 said: After reading a few NTSB reports about contaminated fuel and the consequences to the pilots, I could never fathom WHY any pilot, especially a MSer wouldn't sump. Don't just dump the 100LL on the ground, use it as a cleaner. Not on your bird of course! To be clear, nobody is saying not to sump, just not to sump gasolator which is downstream and “should “ never get water in it unless you had water in the tanks that you failed to drain and the fuel pump was run. 1 Quote
jaylw314 Posted December 12, 2018 Report Posted December 12, 2018 On 12/12/2018 at 9:34 AM, teejayevans said: Beechtalk method of denoting sarcastic comments. Expand Oooooooooooh, I see! Quote
Ragsf15e Posted December 12, 2018 Report Posted December 12, 2018 Not judging anyone, but I’m gonna keep draining and sumping both tanks and gascolater each flight - airplane is hangared too. I wouldn’t feel comfortable flying with someone who didn’t. Maybe it’s habit, maybe it’s being checklist nazi, maybe it’s not even required. However, I dump back clean tank fuel when I visually check tanks and drain minimal amount on ground from colater. Gascolater is drained before walk around in case it sticks and drips, it’s easy to see and reset. Quote
apenney Posted December 12, 2018 Report Posted December 12, 2018 Is there a way for water to accumulate in the gascolator and not in the fuel tank sump area? Quote
EricJ Posted December 12, 2018 Report Posted December 12, 2018 On 12/12/2018 at 9:02 PM, apenney said: Is there a way for water to accumulate in the gascolator and not in the fuel tank sump area? Expand There can be water in the gascolator (I've sampled water there before), and draining the tank sumps doesn't get rid of it. Since I don't have freakishly long arms, I can't pull the ring and capture the sample at the same time. The only times I've been able to do it was with two people. So, usually, I just do like the POH says and pull the ring for a few seconds on each tank prior to startup. I noticed recently that my hangar has a lot of circular stains on the pavement in front of it. D'oh. I might have to compromise on this at some point. Quote
gsxrpilot Posted December 12, 2018 Report Posted December 12, 2018 On 12/12/2018 at 9:22 PM, EricJ said: There can be water in the gascolator (I've sampled water there before), and draining the tank sumps doesn't get rid of it. Expand But I believe the question still stands, can there be water in the gascolator but NOT in the sumps. Or another way, is there anyway one could sump pure gas out of both tanks, and yet have a gascolator full of water? (This is not after sumping water out of the tanks until clean, but rather never seeing water in the sumps and yet have it in the gascolator.) Quote
Ragsf15e Posted December 12, 2018 Report Posted December 12, 2018 Well I don’t wanna be the one to find out. Quote
DonMuncy Posted December 13, 2018 Report Posted December 13, 2018 On 12/12/2018 at 9:22 PM, EricJ said: There can be water in the gascolator (I've sampled water there before), and draining the tank sumps doesn't get rid of it. Since I don't have freakishly long arms, I can't pull the ring and capture the sample at the same time. The only times I've been able to do it was with two people. So, usually, I just do like the POH says and pull the ring for a few seconds on each tank prior to startup. I noticed recently that my hangar has a lot of circular stains on the pavement in front of it. D'oh. I might have to compromise on this at some point. Expand I have a plastic pan (like ones used to drain oil). Easy to place under drain and then pull ring in cabin. Quote
Seymour Posted December 13, 2018 Report Posted December 13, 2018 I place the GATS directly below the gascolator drain. Return to the cockpit and pull the ring for 4 seconds on each side. Then adjust the GATS jar depending to the splat on the hangar floor and repeat (typically several times before hitting the target). I attempted using an LED pointer to line up the jar. I'm now using a funnel stuffed into the GATS and have increased to a 60% chance on the first try. (The larger funnel made the GATS top heavy). Thank you for the tip to check the wing sumps first; I have been using the incorrect order. 1 Quote
Mooney-Mark Posted December 13, 2018 Report Posted December 13, 2018 I sump the tanks and gasolator first flight every day. Haven't found water in many years (aircraft is parked in a hangar) but sumping is a good precautionary preflight procedure. NEVER put the fuel back in the tank. Quote
apenney Posted December 13, 2018 Report Posted December 13, 2018 On 12/13/2018 at 4:54 AM, Mooney-Mark said: I sump the tanks and gasolator first flight every day. Haven't found water in many years (aircraft is parked in a hangar) but sumping is a good precautionary preflight procedure. NEVER put the fuel back in the tank. Expand If the gas looks clear why can't you put it back in? Quote
gsxrpilot Posted December 13, 2018 Report Posted December 13, 2018 On 12/13/2018 at 4:54 AM, Mooney-Mark said: NEVER put the fuel back in the tank. Expand And why is that? Quote
Mooney-Mark Posted December 13, 2018 Report Posted December 13, 2018 Don't want the possibility of putting contaminated fuel back into the tanks. Better to use it in a ground based vehicle. Quote
gsxrpilot Posted December 13, 2018 Report Posted December 13, 2018 On 12/13/2018 at 5:13 AM, Mooney-Mark said: Don't want the possibility of putting contaminated fuel back into the tanks. Better to use it in a ground based vehicle. Expand That makes no sense at all. If I suspect contamination, I'm gonna keep sumping and dumping it out until I'm positive it's clean fuel. If it's clean fuel, as I expect it to be every time, there's no reason not to dump it back in the tank. I maintain my fuel system and the whole airplane for that matter, as well as it can be maintained. If I ever did have water or any other contamination in the fuel, I'd not rest until I knew why and it was corrected. Accordingly I've never sumped anything but pure fuel out of either of my tanks, and so it goes right back in. There's absolutely no reason not to put it back in the tank. 1 Quote
carusoam Posted December 13, 2018 Report Posted December 13, 2018 Getting water to the gascolator without showing up in the tank sumps..? 1) This would imply that fuel carries water with it until it gets past the sumps... 2) We know that fuel does have a very small amount of water dissolved in it at times, at equilibrium with temperature... We would need to know something about this equilibrium... does it require getting colder to hold less moisture in equilibrium? If the gascolator is colder than the fuel, moisture would be falling out of solution, and collecting in the gascolator.... does the fuel evaporate in the gascolator? Water would be left behind... This would become more important depending on how many hours you fly per month... 3) Crossed up plumbing could be a reason... but mixing a pee tube with fuel plumbing hasn’t happened yet. 4) The valve axle has been known to leak air into the fuel system... If water is spilled into the valve area, it could enter the gascolator the same way... 5) The intention of the gascolator drain procedure is to empty the length of tube from the tank to the valve. Do it twice because we have two tanks... The smarter you are... the less these procedures make sense... you realize that one procedure fits a whole bunch of challenges... you skip the realization knowing that there may be something you don’t quite see or remember... So you follow the procedure for good luck... 6) I don’t like to return fuel back to the tank... No moisture is pretty visible, some moisture, I used to decant and return to the tanks... outside birds might decant a lot... dirt specs aren’t so visible when they are there... Spilling fuel across the wing seems to be my specialty... The aroma of fuel seems to follow me around for hours... no sinks around my hangar... no baby wipes for decades... Chemical handling technique... Once it has left the container, it is no longer a known entity... never put it back because a contaminated sample will now contaminate the entire container... Now you have to keep that fuel cup extra clean... PP thoughts only. Not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- 2 Quote
Htwjr Posted December 13, 2018 Report Posted December 13, 2018 Not long after I got my C I noticed gas dripping from the gascolator. I removed the bowl and was surprised to find a lot of rust colored gunk in the bowl. I cleaned everything good and that stopped the leak. I drain the gascolator regularly and have removed the bowl a few times since with no gunk. I would offer that draining the gascolator not only removes any water that may accumulate but also could drain any debris before it got to the engine. Quote
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