ADSB... uAvionix

[Greg_D]

6 hours ago, kortopates said:

Your wing tips have white position lights in the rear of the wing tip on both sides. That's why your tail only has a strobe which you need to maintain. I am sure you could get by with a UAT solution but it will reduce your Ovations service ceiling back down to under 18K which will prove to be a sticky point at resale time; i.e. considered a downgrade till fixed properly.  

Dropping the service ceiling by 2,000 ft shouldn’t be that big of a hit.  I don’t know any Ovation owners who cruise at or above 180, or anywhere close to that.  Is there a regulation that says I need to keep a tail strobe?

[kortopates]

Yes, I suggest reviewing the Whelen site since they do an excellent job of showing you the requirements with some great graphics. The regs vary by year too but you'll see their info on anti-collision light requirements (your position light system is not an issue). When you see the Whelen diagram note Mooney installed the tail strobe since the wing strobes are buried in the wing tips they are not visible from the rear, just the front.

https://www.whelen.com/pb/Aviation/Catalog%20Price%20Lists%20and%20Manuals/Anti-Collision_Light_Systems_Installation_and_Service_Manual.pdf

I know of many S/R pilots whom occasionally get into the flight levels to top weather.


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[mooniacX]

Stupid question.....When you went up, did you have to get a squawk code or did you just go 1200? I am at an uncontrolled airport. Thanks!!

[MARZ]

I did mine 1200  the tie to the flight is the N number your'e passing via ads-b   once complete you validate with the date of the flight and the n number. IIRC the validation needs to take place inside the mode C vail of class b or c, not necessaily in the b or c airspace. 

[mooniacX]

Excellent! Thank you for the advice. I will go skirt around class C and see what happens. 

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, mooniacX said:

Excellent! Thank you for the advice. I will go skirt around class C and see what happens. 

Check the ADS-B rebate website again. 

To validate your ADS-B install, you just need to go up anywhere you can be seen, check the PAPR and you're done. You do NOT need to fly in rule airspace

To qualify for the ADS-B rebate, you need to to fly in rule airspace for a total of 30 minutes.  You might get away with less, but nobody's figured out how they determine this.

Rule airspace is:

• INSIDE Class B or C airspace
• INSIDE the Mode C veil of a major airport
• ABOVE a Class C airspace
• ABOVE 10,000' MSL and ABOVE 2,500' AGL
• ABOVE 3,000' MSL along the Gulf coast

As such, flying around a class C area will not count.

I did my flight going back and forth above the PDX class C.  The controllers laughed a little bit but didn't have a problem with it.  I didn't have my oxygen setup yet, so I didn't want to hang around above 10,000' for half an hour.

[mooniacX]

3 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

Check the ADS-B rebate website again. 

To validate your ADS-B install, you just need to go up anywhere you can be seen, check the PAPR and you're done. You do NOT need to fly in rule airspace

To qualify for the ADS-B rebate, you need to to fly in rule airspace for a total of 30 minutes.  You might get away with less, but nobody's figured out how they determine this.

Rule airspace is:

• INSIDE Class B or C airspace
• INSIDE the Mode C veil of a major airport
• ABOVE a Class C airspace
• ABOVE 10,000' MSL and ABOVE 2,500' AGL
• ABOVE 3,000' MSL along the Gulf coast

As such, flying around a class C area will not count.

I did my flight going back and forth above the PDX class C.  The controllers laughed a little bit but didn't have a problem with it.  I didn't have my oxygen setup yet, so I didn't want to hang around above 10,000' for half an hour.

Great information!. That was kinda the way I interpreted it, but was still unsure if I had to ask for a squawk code. I was also trying to decide if just the above 10,000 feet rule was enough.  Thanks again everyone for helping out!

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, mooniacX said:

Great information!. That was kinda the way I interpreted it, but was still unsure if I had to ask for a squawk code. I was also trying to decide if just the above 10,000 feet rule was enough.  Thanks again everyone for helping out!

You don't need a discrete squawk code, 1200 is fine.  If you're going to be above 10,000', just remember you also need to be more than 2,500' AGL.

[Buckeyechuck]

What if any are your plans for ADS-B in when using the sky beacon? 

[mooniac15u]

On 1/25/2019 at 6:09 PM, jaylw314 said:

Check the ADS-B rebate website again. 

To validate your ADS-B install, you just need to go up anywhere you can be seen, check the PAPR and you're done. You do NOT need to fly in rule airspace

To qualify for the ADS-B rebate, you need to to fly in rule airspace for a total of 30 minutes.  You might get away with less, but nobody's figured out how they determine this.

Rule airspace is:

• INSIDE Class B or C airspace
• INSIDE the Mode C veil of a major airport
• ABOVE a Class C airspace
• ABOVE 10,000' MSL and ABOVE 2,500' AGL
• ABOVE 3,000' MSL along the Gulf coast

As such, flying around a class C area will not count.

I did my flight going back and forth above the PDX class C.  The controllers laughed a little bit but didn't have a problem with it.  I didn't have my oxygen setup yet, so I didn't want to hang around above 10,000' for half an hour.

I had my ADS-B transponder installed during the previous rebate.  After installation I didn't have time to do a validation flight for the rebate before I went on a 3 hour cross country flight.  After that flight I submitted the report request and everything came back ok except the "rules airspace" part.  I got an email the next day from the FAA saying that it had been manually reviewed and no more validation was needed.  I received my rebate a couple weeks later.

I guess the moral of the story is it might not be necessary to do some kind of convoluted flight trying to stay inside rules airspace even though that's what they claim you have to do.

[squeaky.stow]

Would anyone with knowledge of maintenance and airworthiness care to speculate on the legality of installing a Skybeacon on the wingtip of a J/K with a slot cut into the clear plexiglass nav light cover to allow the antenna blade to stick out? 

I am looking for affordable interim ADSB solutions until I am ready for a full panel upgrade with a 1090 In & Out transponder. Tail Beacon won’t do the job for my 252 unless they come up with a version with a strobe instead of a white tail light. 

Regards,

Mark

[MinneMooney]

You might want to consider a Garmin GDL-82 instead. Fewer negatives versus trying to cut up the navy light cover. Plus, you could probably resell it once you switch to a new transponder. 

[MARZ]

1 hour ago, MinneMooney said:

You might want to consider a Garmin GDL-82 instead

I really don't know why this option is being discounted by so many. 

[David_H]

6 minutes ago, Mike Ropers said:

I really don't know why this option is being discounted by so many. 

My understanding is that shops seem to be quoting install costs that make the GDL-82 less attractive.

[RLCarter]

13 minutes ago, David_H said:

My understanding is that shops seem to be quoting install costs that make the GDL-82 less attractive.

I've heard some stupid prices for installs, it seems shops seem to think they have us by the short-n-curlies and are adjusting their prices accordingly. Been holding out for either the matching right side light or the tail beacon but it doesn't look like it's going to happen soon so I'll be ordering the GDL-82 for both planes here fairly quick

[squeaky.stow]

The GDL82 has about the same purchace price as the Skybeacon but I suspect that installation will double the cost. If I am going to go to all the trouble to install the box and run wiring for power, antenna, and gps source, I might as well do the full ADS-B transponder installation now and be done with it. 

My objective is to have a temporary ADS-B solution which I can remove and sell later when I make my final decisions on my panel upgrade. The only thing I would have to replace would be the plexiglass navlight cover. How expensive could that be? (He asked, naively.....)

My question remains, is cutting an antenna slot in that plastic cover legal and safe?

Also, why is nobody offering a 1090 solution like the UAT Skybeacon or GDL82? The only reason either of those would be a temporary solution for me vs. permanent is that I need 1090 to fly above FL180. I note that uAvionix has several 1090 devices for experimental or UK/EASA, but nothing for certified GA.

[Jerry 5TJ]

2 hours ago, squeaky.stow said:

 

.....Also, why is nobody offering a 1090 solution like the UAT Skybeacon or GDL82? The only reason either of those would be a temporary solution for me vs. permanent is that I need 1090 to fly above FL180.....

Perhaps in part due to the difficulty in building a small Mode S RF 200 watt transmitter vs the 7 watt UAT transmitter?  

[MARZ]

14 hours ago, David_H said:

My understanding is that shops seem to be quoting install costs that make the GDL-82 less attractive.

My A&P and I installed mine in less than 5 hours - if you don't want the optional fault light and anonymous switch it's a power and ground wire, install a GPS antenna and splice into the transponder coax.  I opted for the options. 

[mike_elliott]

On 1/24/2019 at 6:21 PM, Greg_D said:

Dropping the service ceiling by 2,000 ft shouldn’t be that big of a hit.  I don’t know any Ovation owners who cruise at or above 180, or anywhere close to that.  Is there a regulation that says I need to keep a tail strobe?

Shouldn't be but It is in the eyes of the buyer. Your plane would be limited now below what the manufacture specs are. Other Ovations for sale most likely wont be. Getting the most plane for your $ is what most buyers are after, and this would be a detractor for sure. The buyer would have to come to the realization he would now own this limitation and have to either fix it or take a hit himself at sales time. Kind of like having a the very first log book missing on a 55 year old E model. Not really a big deal except at sales time.

[Immelman]

20 hours ago, MinneMooney said:

You might want to consider a Garmin GDL-82 instead. Fewer negatives versus trying to cut up the navy light cover. Plus, you could probably resell it once you switch to a new transponder. 

The GDL-82 was my plan a year ago when the first rebate was running, prior to sky beacon.

But the ease of sky beacon installation won me over. Also, having anon mode anytime I am squawking 1200 vs running a switch. I don't want or need to run a switch for that. Also, to give the middle finger to Garmin. Having read both Garmin's and uavionx's patents I want to support the little guy with their innovative design. It is a risk, though, buying something that's getting sued.

And it wasn't just the physical installation of the GDL-82. Having read their install document it told me that I basically needed to go to an avionics shop due to needing transponder test equipment.

I now have a sky beacon in hand and need to install...

Edited February 4, 2019 by Immelman

[Immelman]

20 minutes ago, nosky2high said:

How is it a risk?

If Garmin wins, are they going to sue all of the skybeacon owners and force us to remove them? 

Look at the instructions for continued airworthiness for the sky beacon... you have to get out an iphone and do an annual test using their app. OK, so far so good...

Lets say uavionix goes belly up and the sky beacon is unsupported (I guess that might happen regardless of the suit). How many ios apps work that haven't been updated in 5+ years? I guess you could maintain an old iphone with an old IOS version for that. But it is a risk...

[Marauder]

Look at the instructions for continued airworthiness for the sky beacon... you have to get out an iphone and do an annual test using their app. OK, so far so good...
Lets say uavionix goes belly up and the sky beacon is unsupported (I guess that might happen regardless of the suit). How many ios apps work that haven't been updated in 5+ years? I guess you could maintain an old iphone with an old IOS version for that. But it is a risk...

Hopefully it won’t go down the NavWorx path. Their issue was a non-compliant product that eventually led them to close their doors. If Garmin wins the patent lawsuit, how will it be resolved? Force them to pay a patent user fee. Put out an injunction preventing them from selling the product anymore?


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[Buckeyechuck]

So my friend installed the Skybeacon on his Citabria.  Flunked the first test flight. Heads up to all who use this option, you need to put your transponder in ALT mode for it to work. After I figured this out for him he flew a second test flight and flunked it, although he had no red marks on the report. He asked for a manual review and it came back that he had no time in "rule airspace". Rule airspace for southern Ohio is defined as flying in class B, or C or above 10,000 ft. Anyone else have this issue?  I thought I recalled reading where others passed by just a routine flight at lower altitudes?  

[Andy95W]

Inside the Mode-C veil of Class B airspace (30 NM) works, but is the only exception I know of to Class B/C or above 10,000'.

[MinneMooney]

I had an Appareo ESG installed in my Cessna 140 about 2 years ago. I’m under the MSP Class B airspace. It took 3 different flights for me to get a passing test result. I flew outside of Class B airspace but within the 30 mile “mode C” veil.