How to install LED Strobes?

[Supercop0184]

Yeah I thought so too,  but all that’s required is 360 degree coverage Nav and collision - since the 650s have 180 degree coverage on each wing, I would think that would cover it.  But I’m far from expert.

[gsxrpilot]

I was just looking at them again... and I'm inclined to agree with you. Since you don't have enclosed wingtips, I think a pair of the 650's would be all you need.

[Supercop0184]

Just saw this in their lighting catalog - while these are strobes and not the same model we are discussing - they are designed in the same fashion - either red of green for the front 90 degrees - solid white back 90 degrees - and strobes for each side 180 degrees - so basically the strobe version of the 650s. They stated that these lights eliminate the need for a tail light. Interesting - I think we have an answer lol. 

[Andy95W]

46 minutes ago, Supercop0184 said:

Ok slightly different question but on topic. 

 

I have ONE anti collision strobe in the belly (at one time or another it was a coffee grinder) and regular position lights in the wings and one white position only in the tail. It seems to me that the Orion 650 has the front red or green light, as well as the white light towards the back. So on the left side you get 90 degrees of red, 90 degrees of solid white, and 180 degrees of flashing light when activated. Same for the right side and green. Wouldn’t this do away with the need for not only the belly light but the tail light as well?

I'm going to suggest that you keep the belly beacon for 2 reasons:  first, it makes a legal backup if either of your wingtip strobes malfunction/burn out/whatever, and second- you can taxi with the belly beacon on at night, legally, and not blind the people around you by running your wingtip strobes.

Your fellow night flyers will thank you.

[Supercop0184]

2 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

I'm going to suggest that you keep the belly beacon for 2 reasons:  first, it makes a legal backup if either of your wingtip strobes malfunction/burn out/whatever, and second- you can taxi with the belly beacon on at night, legally, and not blind the people around you by running your wingtip strobes.

Your fellow night flyers will thank you.

But belly beacon isn’t a legal back up - because it can’t be seen from above the plane 30 degrees as required - and I had never really looked into this - but if it’s a fuselage mounted beacon, must have two - one on top and bottom. 

[jaylw314]

13 minutes ago, Supercop0184 said:

But belly beacon isn’t a legal back up - because it can’t be seen from above the plane 30 degrees as required - and I had never really looked into this - but if it’s a fuselage mounted beacon, must have two - one on top and bottom. 

Wait, strobes aren't a legal requirement anywhere, right?  I mean, I'm assuming they're TSO'd, but there's no actual requirement for VFR or IFR flight?  Really the only requirement is one anticollision light on the ground, and that could be either the top or bottom (I remember most trainers I flew in simply had the red beacon on top of the vertical stab)?

[Supercop0184]

21 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

Wait, strobes aren't a legal requirement anywhere, right?  I mean, I'm assuming they're TSO'd, but there's no actual requirement for VFR or IFR flight?  Really the only requirement is one anticollision light on the ground, and that could be either the top or bottom (I remember most trainers I flew in simply had the red beacon on top of the vertical stab)?

All aircraft must be equipped with an anti collision and position light system for nighttime operations  - Depending on the age of the aircraft determines the required equipment . 

[Supercop0184]

24 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

Wait, strobes aren't a legal requirement anywhere, right?  I mean, I'm assuming they're TSO'd, but there's no actual requirement for VFR or IFR flight?  Really the only requirement is one anticollision light on the ground, and that could be either the top or bottom (I remember most trainers I flew in simply had the red beacon on top of the vertical stab)?

For aircraft for which type certificate was applied for After April 1, 1957 to August 10, 1971:
These anti-collision systems must produce a minimum of 100 effective candela in Aviation Red or White (REF. FAR 23.1397), 360o around the aircraft’s vertical axis, 30o above and below the horizontal plane (REF. FAR 23.1401).

 

[jaylw314]

4 minutes ago, Supercop0184 said:

For aircraft for which type certificate was applied for After April 1, 1957 to August 10, 1971:
These anti-collision systems must produce a minimum of 100 effective candela in Aviation Red or White (REF. FAR 23.1397), 360o around the aircraft’s vertical axis, 30o above and below the horizontal plane (REF. FAR 23.1401).

 

That implies that the belly beacon alone has adequate coverage alone, though, since you can fly without the wing/tail strobes on

[MARZ]

2 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

That implies that the belly beacon alone has adequate coverage alone, though, since you can fly without the wing/tail strobes on

Thats my thinking - 

It was on the plane from the factory

there's a switch in the dash

there would be times that the wingtip strobes would not be in use but the anti-collsion is required

So - my belly light remains

I've added nav and strobes to the wings and tail

in my dash as delivered I have three switches and dedicated circuits for all three

 

 

 

 

 

[Supercop0184]

4 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

That implies that the belly beacon alone has adequate coverage alone, though, since you can fly without the wing/tail strobes on

No - it absolutely says that the lights have to illuminate 30 degrees above and below the horizontal plane - a belly beacon is not going to do that is? 

 

Hell i dont know - I need a beer. My mechanic says he doesn’t feel it meets the legalities only having a belly beacon. 

[Supercop0184]

[Supercop0184]

Believe me, it’s cheaper and easier if I can just replace my belly beacon - but my mechanic said we needed to check the legalities of it because he feels as though there is no way, a belly mounted light, I can send light 30 degrees above the horizontal plane of the aircraft. Belly beacon protects you from folks below you, but what about folks above you? 

[jaylw314]

11 minutes ago, Supercop0184 said:

Believe me, it’s cheaper and easier if I can just replace my belly beacon - but my mechanic said we needed to check the legalities of it because he feels as though there is no way, a belly mounted light, I can send light 30 degrees above the horizontal plane of the aircraft. Belly beacon protects you from folks below you, but what about folks above you? 

I don't know if the belly strobe is different, but the lens of the coffee grinder beacon are arranged vertically and in the same plane as the light bulb, e.g. when it spins, the beams on the hangar wall are at the same level as the beacon.  That would suggest the vertical coverage was symmetrical, e.g. the same angle up and down.  whether that is actually 30 degrees or not is something I'm not sure of, but if it isn't, a whole f--kton of us are running around with illegal anti-collision lighting...   at the very minimum, the POH would be warning us not to fly at night without working wing/tail strobes and without turning them on.

[MARZ]

Position lights, also known as navigation lights, include a green light on the right wing, a red light on the left wing and a white light on the tail of the airplane. These lights work together to illuminate an airplane during nighttime operations, indicating to pilots in the vicinity not only the location of the lighted airplane but its relative direction of flight. Pilots can identify whether an airplane is flying toward or away from them at night based on these lights. 

Per CFR Part 91.209, position lights are required during night operations - from sunset to sunrise. 

Anti-collision light systems include the aircraft’s beacon and/or strobe lights. Some aircraft have both a beacon and a strobe light system, and other airplanes just have one or the other. 

Per CFR Part 91.209, an aircraft that has an anti-collision light system installed must not operate without the anti-collision lights on, unless the pilots deems it necessary to turn off the anti-collision lights in the interest of safety (while taxiing on the ramp, for example, a pilot might wish to taxi with the aircraft’s strobe lights off so as not to impair the vision of other pilots or ground personnel). 

And this is where the issue of aircraft lights often becomes unclear. Many pilots operate with the strobe lights and the beacon on all the time because they interpret the FAR to mean that they must. Other pilots interpret the regulation to mean that as long as at least one of the anti-collision lights - either the beacon or the strobe lights - is on, then they’re operating within the guidelines of the regulation. Who is right? Either one, or both. A pilot should operate with the anti-collision light system on unless he deems that, in the interest of safety, a portion of the anti-collision light system should be turned off to prevent vertigo or spatial disorientation, or as a courtesy to other pilots in the vicinity. This means that while it is not necessarily illegal to operate with just the beacon on, it is prudent to use the entire system when able. For this reason, you’ll see that the common practice is to turn on the beacon before startup and to turn on the strobes right before takeoff, as a courtesy to others in the ramp area.

The use of landing and/or taxi lights, installed on most airplanes, is optional. If operating an aircraft for hire at night, a landing light is required to be installed on the airplane, but there is no regulation that states that the landing light must be on or illuminated in order to operate an aircraft at night. If a pilot thinks that a landing light is necessary, either to illuminate the runway environment or for collision avoidance, he should use it. If not, he can leave it off.

AIM Guidance and Operation Lights On
In addition to the existing regulations, the FAA has implemented a program called “Operation Lights On,” which encourages pilots to use lights for collision avoidance and offers the following guidance (AIM, 4-3-23).

“Prior to commencing taxi, it is recommended to turn on navigation, position, anti-collision, and logo lights (if equipped). To signal intent to other pilots, consider turning on the taxi light when the aircraft is moving or intending to move on the ground, and turning it off when stopped or yielding to other ground traffic. Strobe lights should not be illuminated during taxi if they will adversely affect the vision of other pilots or ground personnel.”

[Supercop0184]

23 minutes ago, Mike Ropers said:

Position lights, also known as navigation lights, include a green light on the right wing, a red light on the left wing and a white light on the tail of the airplane. These lights work together to illuminate an airplane during nighttime operations, indicating to pilots in the vicinity not only the location of the lighted airplane but its relative direction of flight. Pilots can identify whether an airplane is flying toward or away from them at night based on these lights. 

Per CFR Part 91.209, position lights are required during night operations - from sunset to sunrise. 

Anti-collision light systems include the aircraft’s beacon and/or strobe lights. Some aircraft have both a beacon and a strobe light system, and other airplanes just have one or the other. 

Per CFR Part 91.209, an aircraft that has an anti-collision light system installed must not operate without the anti-collision lights on, unless the pilots deems it necessary to turn off the anti-collision lights in the interest of safety (while taxiing on the ramp, for example, a pilot might wish to taxi with the aircraft’s strobe lights off so as not to impair the vision of other pilots or ground personnel). 

And this is where the issue of aircraft lights often becomes unclear. Many pilots operate with the strobe lights and the beacon on all the time because they interpret the FAR to mean that they must. Other pilots interpret the regulation to mean that as long as at least one of the anti-collision lights - either the beacon or the strobe lights - is on, then they’re operating within the guidelines of the regulation. Who is right? Either one, or both. A pilot should operate with the anti-collision light system on unless he deems that, in the interest of safety, a portion of the anti-collision light system should be turned off to prevent vertigo or spatial disorientation, or as a courtesy to other pilots in the vicinity. This means that while it is not necessarily illegal to operate with just the beacon on, it is prudent to use the entire system when able. For this reason, you’ll see that the common practice is to turn on the beacon before startup and to turn on the strobes right before takeoff, as a courtesy to others in the ramp area.

The use of landing and/or taxi lights, installed on most airplanes, is optional. If operating an aircraft for hire at night, a landing light is required to be installed on the airplane, but there is no regulation that states that the landing light must be on or illuminated in order to operate an aircraft at night. If a pilot thinks that a landing light is necessary, either to illuminate the runway environment or for collision avoidance, he should use it. If not, he can leave it off.

AIM Guidance and Operation Lights On
In addition to the existing regulations, the FAA has implemented a program called “Operation Lights On,” which encourages pilots to use lights for collision avoidance and offers the following guidance (AIM, 4-3-23).

“Prior to commencing taxi, it is recommended to turn on navigation, position, anti-collision, and logo lights (if equipped). To signal intent to other pilots, consider turning on the taxi light when the aircraft is moving or intending to move on the ground, and turning it off when stopped or yielding to other ground traffic. Strobe lights should not be illuminated during taxi if they will adversely affect the vision of other pilots or ground personnel.”

Understood - and agree 100 percent - but this doesn’t really address if the Orion 650s eliminate the need of a tail mounted NAV / anti collision light - due to its 360 degree coverage - I fully feel that they eliminate the need of a belly beacon. 

I’m still trying to figure out if a sole belly beacon is sufficient for the “30 degree above and below the horizontal plane”.

 

[bradp]

The only way would be to do another beacon on the top of the fuselage to get the required coverage if you don’t use strobes... 

[Andy95W]

6 hours ago, Supercop0184 said:

But belly beacon isn’t a legal back up - because it can’t be seen from above the plane 30 degrees as required - and I had never really looked into this - but if it’s a fuselage mounted beacon, must have two - one on top and bottom. 

The anti-collision light system (crappy belly beacon) on our older Mooneys was approved by the FAA in the type certification process.

I agree, that if you were to remove that beacon and install a new anti-collision light system it would have to meet the requirements of the diagrams shown above.  But you wouldn't be installing a new system, but simply replacing the crappy coffee grinder with a strobe that puts out more candlepower.

As an IA, I would have more of a problem with your solution of tail beacon removal in lieu of the 650s.  Our flat wingtips shield the aft-facing light from the rear of the airplane, where it is required to be visible.

[Cody Stallings]

On 9/9/2018 at 4:48 PM, Jmr324 said:

Forgive me as I haven't looked into this before posting, but if there are no strobes currently on the wings and therefore to power supply to remove, what is involved to replacing the nav lights with 650s? Not worried about them not being synced .

I guess what I'm wondering is are they remove and replace or is new wiring needed?

Thanks in advance.

You will definitely want them Synced.

You will understand the first time you land at night Un-Synchronized.

[ArtVandelay]

You will definitely want them Synced.
You will understand the first time you land at night Un-Synchronized.

Hmmm, mine aren’t synchronized and I never had a problem... I like the Christmas tree look.

[bradp]

I had my LED strobes unsynched and it was totally distracting. I ran the sync wire at the next opportunity.  When I had comet flash strobes it was not nearly as distracting. 

[MARZ]

When mine got installed (I had no wingtip strobes as built) we ran a four lead wire.  

• Ground
• Navigation power
• Strobe power
• Sync

You need to pull the front seats and side panels at a minimum, open all the front inspection panels on the wing - find your existing wires - you will need to cut the strings that secure all the current wiring together.  The left wing has more wires in the bundle than the right to account for the stall switch and pitot heat, both wings have a wire to a fuel sender.   I found a small razor knife to be the best, find the binding string and lightly work to cut the string. 

Using both of the existing wing tip wires, pull a long strand of safety wire through from the wingtip to the cabin.  Secure the new wire and pull through to the wingtip.  Zip tie the wires where appropriate - pulling wires works a lot easier with a helper to ensure things don't get bound up from the feed side.

The tail stöbe takes ALOT of patience.  Our unique empennage design means the wires snake this way and that to facilitate the tail movement.

This project was done in concert with the install of my GDL-82 at annual so my interior was out for both to allow running coax and wiring.

 

[Marcopolo]

10 hours ago, Andy95W said:

 Our flat wingtips shield the aft-facing light from the rear of the airplane, where it is required to be visible.

^^^^^^^This!

  In order to gain the 360* coverage that you are assuming, then these lights would have to be butted up to each other.  Once you separate them by 37 feet then where they still provide the 180* viewing angle they are no longer providing the assumed 360* coverage.

 

Ron

[jaylw314]

5 hours ago, bradp said:

I had my LED strobes unsynched and it was totally distracting. I ran the sync wire at the next opportunity.  When I had comet flash strobes it was not nearly as distracting. 

I have the triple-flash power supply on one wing, and the single-flash power supply on the other.   It's a good thing I played a lot of drums on Rock Band, it helps with the syncopated rhythm...