Under attack

[steingar]

Just now, aviatoreb said:

Doesn’t Ohio have ever stronger tornado and super cell storms / we are all getting some form of climate change.

Investment advice: buy up “beach front” property in northern Labrador nor while its still cheap...

Tornadoes have always been a problem, possibly the only real lethal Wx we get. I honestly don’t think they’ve been getting any worse, at least I haven’t seen big damages here with greater frequency than days past. I can’t say that for other parts of the country, though.

The storms have gotten more frequent and more energetic. Nothing compared to the East Coast, which is getting hundred years storms seasonally. What we have to do is think about 500 year storms and plan accordingly.

Thankfully buildings and the infrastructure that supports them are built stout here, to withstand the elements. Still, we’ve had two winters now where it never got cold. That’ll kill our Northern trees, and then we could see some real problems. Thankfully we don’t see those winters often. Listen to me, rooting for it to get cold.

[Niko182]

Flew from medford to sac airport today and i can honestly say it wss the worst flight i have had so far. Got to the airport at 11am with 10 miles of vis today and tried to get past redding and failed so turned back and landed around 1, and about 5 mins before landing, a layer of smoke made it over the airfield turning it from 10 miles vis to 1 mile vis and ifr so landed with a special vfr. Then tried again at 730 and made it past reddingall the way to sac exec. The smoke is truely terrible. Visibility was 1 mile. All the way up to 13000ft. Cant believe what life is like for the people that live around 1o2, redding, medford and grants pass.

[thinwing]

My house is 100 miles from nearest fire (Clearlake)and I see a fine layer of ash over everything.Flying to Arcata last wed was total ifr with 13 k tops smoke layer.Was offered the visual into 20 at SAC and I didn't make out the runway till 3/4 mile out.Today ,delta breeze came up from the south west and cleared the air a bit...

[Yetti]

20 hours ago, bonal said:

It's true that homes are built in areas that burn same as homes are built in the path of hurricanes tornados volcanos and many other forms of natural disasters so I guess we should stop building homes. Truth is here in California they stopped deforestation and controlled burning so now there is massive amounts of fuel. Also there has been a major amount of bore beetle infestation with thousands of trees dead but the rules won't permit the removal of these trees. Regardless, when folks are in the path of disasters it's very stressful I hope Yetti that you aren't saying tuff luck and we should have considered this before moving into our home.

I am not saying tuff luck.   I am saying when people down here build on a barrier island, they should expect it to get blown into the back bay at some point.  We like to refer to some of the houses built as "hurricane bait"  There are steps that can be taken to make a home last a hurricane.  There are steps that can be taken to make a home last a fire. https://www.usfa.fema.gov/wui_toolkit/wui_tools.html

We should all be encouraging controlled burns.   There are some theories out there that if we spent as much resources on prescribed fires, that we would not have to spend money on wildfires. https://www.outsideonline.com/2320206/prescribed-wildfire-solution-florida

I have friends that are still repairing their homes from Harvey last year.  Hurricane related, but different circumstances.

[Raptor05121]

I'll take hurricanes and afternoon thunderstorms over fire and earthquakes and day of the week.

[Hank]

2 hours ago, Raptor05121 said:

I'll take hurricanes and afternoon thunderstorms over fire and earthquakes and day of the week.

Me, too!

And for folks in the middle of the country, strangers to salt water, hills and trees, I'll take a hurricane over a tornado any day. What's a day or two of strong wind and heavy rain (with several days' advance notice and prep time) to winds of the same strength that swirl, with rain and hail, and five minutes notice if you're lucky?

[bonal]

14 hours ago, steingar said:

I’m probably going to get flamed for this, but what’s going on in California is Climate Change in action. More wet years followed by dry years making lots of fuel. 

I’ll take Ohio any day. The Wx sucks most of the time, but it is almost never lethal. Yeah it’s flat, but you can land out if the mill quits. Yeah it’s ugly, but that keeps out the riff raff. What it is is cheap and easy living.

Good luck to the OP. Can’t be much fun being in the path of these things.

I'm sure no pun was intended for the flamed comment but was actually kind of funny. As for climate change, nope it's called summer and it's always hot as hell in Lake county. The problem is too much fuel because there is no controlled burns and deforestation.  And yes no fun at all.

[mike_elliott]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

Me, too!

And for folks in the middle of the country, strangers to salt water, hills and trees, I'll take a hurricane over a tornado any day. What's a day or two of strong wind and heavy rain (with several days' advance notice and prep time) to winds of the same strength that swirl, with rain and hail, and five minutes notice if you're lucky?

A cat 5 hurricane has winds in excess of 155MPH, a F5 Tornado is winds between 261 and 318 MPH. A tornado of this strength WILL destroy anything in its path, while a hurricane may. Then there is the Cat 5 hurricane with embedded f5 tornados....time to pack...

[bonal]

4 hours ago, Yetti said:

I am not saying tuff luck.   I am saying when people down here build on a barrier island, they should expect it to get blown into the back bay at some point.  We like to refer to some of the houses built as "hurricane bait"  There are steps that can be taken to make a home last a hurricane.  There are steps that can be taken to make a home last a fire. https://www.usfa.fema.gov/wui_toolkit/wui_tools.html

We should all be encouraging controlled burns.   There are some theories out there that if we spent as much resources on prescribed fires, that we would not have to spend money on wildfires. https://www.outsideonline.com/2320206/prescribed-wildfire-solution-florida

I have friends that are still repairing their homes from Harvey last year.  Hurricane related, but different circumstances.

I know that's not what you meant and forgive my comment but nerves are shot right now. There are things that can be done to help protect from fire but when the flames grow to over 300 feet high it's likely not going to make much difference. As I have been involved with the restoration process for all the fires except the current ones "retired" and sitting this one out I have seen houses made of brick and stone reduced to a pile of rubble. 

[DaV8or]

On 7/31/2018 at 7:24 PM, Yetti said:

The best thing people can do is make their homes fire safe.

Maybe a little thread creep, but a good contractor friend of mine was up visiting to go out boating and we got to talking and told me the story of the time he was contracted to install a fire suppression system for the outside of the house.

A rich guy in So Cal had built this big fancy house up in the hills amongst all the trees like so many do and he was understandably concerned with it burning down someday, so had a the system installed to protect his home. It started with a fire proof roof. There are several materials for roofing that work pretty well for fire proofing. 

Then they installed a manifold/piping system around the entire perimeter of the house under the eves of the roof. It was plumbed underground to a high volume gasoline powered water pump. The pump was installed in it's own underground concrete bunker, completely sealed to the outside. It's water supply was the house's swimming pool with thousands of gallons. The swimming pool was actually installed as part of the fire suppression system with the added benefit that you could swim in it!

The system was completely self sufficient and off the grid. It created a mist/spray of water around the entire house until the swimming pool ran out, or the gas ran out. I'm not sure how big the gas tank was, or the run time.

Anyhow, many years later the system was tested when a forest fire came to the neighborhood. It worked and the house was one of the survivors.

[Guest tommy123]

10 hours ago, bonal said:

I'm sure no pun was intended for the flamed comment but was actually kind of funny. As for climate change, nope it's called summer and it's always hot as hell in Lake county. The problem is too much fuel because there is no controlled burns and deforestation.  And yes no fun at all.

Amazing.

[Guest]

On 7/29/2018 at 10:24 AM, bonal said:

I am going out of my mind, living in California all my life but the past few years seems as though fire season has turned into a war zone as two more fires have come into Lake county after we had a big one just a few weeks ago. This is getting really stupid. It's no longer a matter of if or even when but just where. Our annual is scheduled for next week but likely will be delayed because Lampson Field is inaccessible as it is within a precautionary evacuation zone.  Just a heads up if anyone is planning on K1o2 TFR and no access. 

God I can't wait for winter 

You’re not alone, Ontario is experiencing a bad fire season as well.  Luckily for us we’re in the south and not effected, but cottage country is close to some of the fires.

Clarence

[steingar]

On 8/5/2018 at 12:05 PM, bonal said:

I'm sure no pun was intended for the flamed comment but was actually kind of funny. As for climate change, nope it's called summer and it's always hot as hell in Lake county. The problem is too much fuel because there is no controlled burns and deforestation.  And yes no fun at all.

Strike and miss.  You've always had dry summers, and control burns have been rare for awhile.  There has been mismanagement, I'll grant you that  But what's going on is simple, more wet seasons followed by more dry seasons.  Twenty years ago it was on or the other.  Now they mix, and you get bad fires as a result.

 

There was a really bad fire very early in the last century, and the goals of the forest service change to preventing fires at all costs.  They didn't realize that fire is just  part of how these forests work.  Used to be the fires burned out all the underbrush.  Now they burn  he canopies.  But that's distinct from what's happening in California, which is nightmarish to say the least.

 

But don't come here.  The weather really does suck, its flat, ugly and landlocked.  You wouldn't like it, really.

[DaV8or]

3 hours ago, steingar said:

Strike and miss.  You've always had summers, and control burns have been rare for awhile.  There has been mismanagement, I'll grant you that  But what's going on is simple, more wet seasons followed by more dry seasons.  Twenty years ago it was on or the other.  Now they mix, and you get bad fires as a result.

Actually, one of the biggest problems we face here regarding fires is people setting them on purpose. Sure it's dry and yes there is a lot of fuel, but the ignition spark is now more caused by media fame than natural, or accidental. Where I live, we have had a disproportionate number of grass fires and that's because people have been running around setting them. They caught one of these douche bags recently using road flares. 

[bonal]

9 minutes ago, DaV8or said:

Actually, one of the biggest problems we face here regarding fires is people setting them on purpose. Sure it's dry and yes there is a lot of fuel, but the ignition spark is now more caused by media fame than natural, or accidental. Where I live, we have had a disproportionate number of grass fires and that's because people have been running around setting them. They caught one of these douche bags recently using road flares. 

I did not want to go there but you are absolutely correct.

[flyboy0681]

On 8/5/2018 at 10:32 AM, Hank said:

Me, too!

And for folks in the middle of the country, strangers to salt water, hills and trees, I'll take a hurricane over a tornado any day. What's a day or two of strong wind and heavy rain (with several days' advance notice and prep time) to winds of the same strength that swirl, with rain and hail, and five minutes notice if you're lucky?

The properties of a hurricane call for a calm before the storm. The winds don't pick up until a few hours before they outer bands finally arrive. The event typically lasts six hours and once it passes, the skies are perfectly clear as it cleans out everything in the atmosphere.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, flyboy0681 said:

The properties of a hurricane call for a calm before the storm. The winds don't pick up until a few hours before they outer bands finally arrive. The event typically lasts six hours and once it passes, the skies are perfectly clear as it cleans out everything in the atmosphere.

The whole mess lasts much longer if the eye passes 40-50 miles from you, there's no rest as the eye goes by. That makes pretty much two 6-hour stretches with no break. And of course, the bigger storms take longer. This all assumes it doesn't stall over you like the one last year in Houston, where the heavy rain and high winds lasted three days . . . .

Still preferable (to me, anyway) to a 15-minute tornado experience. BTDT, hurricanes are more my style.

[Yetti]

1 hour ago, flyboy0681 said:

The properties of a hurricane call for a calm before the storm. The winds don't pick up until a few hours before they outer bands finally arrive. The event typically lasts six hours and once it passes, the skies are perfectly clear as it cleans out everything in the atmosphere.

Oh that would be a nice hurricane.    Harvey was two landfalls over several days and 5-6 days of rain.   50" inches in some places.     Just a crappy Tropical storm will move lots of water in off the gulf which becomes a multi day event really quick.  Like a cow peeing on a flat rock.    Last real hurricane, I ran a chainsaw for so long, I could only straight arm lift it and set it on the trees, had it kicked back I would have been dead.   went through 3 chains.

[flyboy0681]

I've lived through approximately 10 major storms (numerous minor) since I moved to South Florida 20 years ago and what I described has been my "typical" experience. Your mileage may vary.

Wilma was by far the worst, but Katrina was in and out in no-time.

 

[Guest tommy123]

11 hours ago, flyboy0681 said:

The properties of a hurricane call for a calm before the storm. The winds don't pick up until a few hours before they outer bands finally arrive. The event typically lasts six hours and once it passes, the skies are perfectly clear as it cleans out everything in the atmosphere.

The most beautiful night sky I’ve ever seen was the night after Irma. Absolutely clear and no light pollution due to no power. First time in my life I could see the Milky Way clearly.

[MyNameIsNobody]

I stopped watching national news for a lot of reasons.  A big factor was hearing about fires or mudslides in California.  I kept waiting for a news report where anchor said: “This just in, there are no negative climate events occurring on the West coast”.  That report never came...

Endeavor to persevere...

Meanwhile local news last night said: “An acre of corn releases up to 1000 gallons of water a day”. It is a tad humid in Iowa....

No shit.

[steingar]

Thing about tornadoes is they're usually pretty small, and damage, while severe, is usually limited.  Not always, but usually.  Hurricanes are usually gigantic, and cover multiple counties and sometimes states.  Tornadoes don't bring in a storm surge.

The remains of hurricane Ivan blew through here a couple years ago.  Just wind, no rain and no storm surge. I decided it takes a special kind of stupid to ride one of those things out.  Ivan was a Cat 1 by then, but it still blew down mature trees.I'd never seen anything like that, ever.

Apologies to those living in hurricane areas, just how I see it.  Your storms are going to grow less numerous but more powerful.  Seems to be the way things are going.  Luckily our fast airplanes make us easy refugees.

[Oldguy]

First hurricane I experienced was Carla in 1961, and I recall friends with beach houses had to have their property surveyed to see where their houses once stood. In the years since, I cannot count how many hurricanes and tropical storms I have been through. Tornadoes, on the other hand, have been a fairly new experience for me since I moved to Alabama in 2001. @steingar is right about tornadoes - especially the "usually" portion. Our office was on top of the highest point in Birmingham when the tornado blew through Tuscaloosa, Birmingham, and up to the northeast of here. We recovered debris in our parking lot from an office over 50 miles from us, and the effect on everyone experiencing the storm was and is unimaginable.

If given the opportunity, I would evacuate from both of these natural disasters, but it is not always possible.

[flyboy0681]

7 minutes ago, Oldguy said:

Our office was on top of the highest point in Birmingham when the tornado blew through Tuscaloosa, Birmingham, and up to the northeast of here.

My daughter attended UA in Tuscaloosa and on one of my trips there we drove around the area hit by the tornado. To say it looked like a nuclear bomb went off would be a gross understatement. But what was truly incredible was that a property which was located across the street from where a house that was pulverized, remained totally untouched.

[DonMuncy]

17 hours ago, tommy123 said:

The most beautiful night sky I’ve ever seen was the night after Irma. Absolutely clear and no light pollution due to no power. First time in my life I could see the Milky Way clearly.

At the risk or major thread drift, I can remember as a kid in east Texas, we could see the Milky Way. Then with city life, pollution, etc., I forgot what the night sky was supposed to look like. Then a pilot friend and I flew down to the "big bend" country, visited the observatory there, and I was amazed at what was still up there.