hypertech Posted June 20, 2018 Report Posted June 20, 2018 Doing some other maintenance this morning and discovered this. Pulled the rest and there are 3 this bad or worse and 3 more with much smaller chips. I need a new cam and maybe an overhaul. I bought the plane in October and while the previous owner wasn’t flying it a lot at that point, it was still being flown. The engine is 1200 SNEW (2000 Ovation 2). This was not the plan when I got up this morning that’s for sure. Has anyone here used Aero Engines in Winchester VA? I’ve found a few positive reviews online and they are recommended by my IA. Considering having them overhaul it and just be done with any major engine maintenance hopefully for a long time. 1 Quote
Guest Posted June 21, 2018 Report Posted June 21, 2018 (edited) Ouch! Sadly this is quite common in both brands of engine, just in a TCM you can pull the lifters. If the cam lobes aren’t beat up badly you can install new lifters and fly on for some time. TCM has an SB covering this situation. http://www.tcmlink.com/pdf2/SID05-1B.pdf Clarence Edited June 21, 2018 by M20Doc Quote
DAVIDWH Posted June 21, 2018 Report Posted June 21, 2018 Sorry about your bad day. Western Skyways overhauled the IO550 for my Ovation. The old engine kept the candles burning for 2250 hours before things got a bit shakey. Happy with their work, no squawks. One thing to keep in mind with the basic overhaul cost are the additional sugar wafers I had not considered. 1. New wiring harness, a must. 2. You really need those new engine mounts. 3. That aged exhaust system, got to be replaced now. 4. Fine wire plugs, don't leave home without them. 5. Engine removal and replace, mas dinero. 6. Freight in and out, my error, Western Skyways pays both ways. And so it goes. Golf carts, Mooneys and high maintenance women, where would we be without them?? Best, 2 Quote
FloridaMan Posted June 21, 2018 Report Posted June 21, 2018 YES. Aero Engines of Winchester are excellent. They did my overhaul and my old Mooney was faster than ever. Quote
rpcc Posted June 21, 2018 Report Posted June 21, 2018 Well that sucks! This is a good thread on the subject. How many hours did you put on it since purchase and where was the planes home base for the previous owner? Quote
jetdriven Posted June 21, 2018 Report Posted June 21, 2018 Well the Facebook thread didn’t really quickly to people calling me a kook because I recommended pulling lifters and inspecting them at pre-buy it which is not hard to do on these things but it seems the other mechanics on the thread thought it was invasive and unnecessary. But they’re not the ones having to buy a $40,000 engine right now either 1 1 Quote
hypertech Posted June 21, 2018 Author Report Posted June 21, 2018 1 hour ago, rpcc said: Well that sucks! This is a good thread on the subject. How many hours did you put on it since purchase and where was the planes home base for the previous owner? I've put about 50-60 hours on it since I got it. The previous owner was in southern Ohio. I never actually met him. Bought it via San Antonio. I don't think it was in San Antonio more than a couple months though. Quote
rpcc Posted June 21, 2018 Report Posted June 21, 2018 Thanks and good luck. Please keep us posted on your progress. Quote
rpcc Posted June 21, 2018 Report Posted June 21, 2018 17 minutes ago, jetdriven said: Well the Facebook thread didn’t really quickly to people calling me a kook because I recommended pulling lifters and inspecting them at pre-buy it which is not hard to do on these things but it seems the other mechanics on the thread thought it was invasive and unnecessary. But they’re not the ones having to buy a $40,000 engine right now either Can you do this on a 520 series as well? Looking at a B brand now that's been sitting for a while. Quote
Guest Posted June 21, 2018 Report Posted June 21, 2018 16 minutes ago, rpcc said: Can you do this on a 520 series as well? Looking at a B brand now that's been sitting for a while. The only TCM engine that you can’t pull the lifters that I know of are A65 thru O-300. 360,470,520 &550 are all easily done. It’s as easy as pulling a cylinder on a Lycoming, and just as necessary. Clarence Quote
jetdriven Posted June 21, 2018 Report Posted June 21, 2018 Clearly the mechanics on that FB post disagreed. I eventually quit talking about it. But I wouldn’t use those guys for a prebuy nor the shop this Op used. Quote
rpcc Posted June 22, 2018 Report Posted June 22, 2018 1 hour ago, M20Doc said: The only TCM engine that you can’t pull the lifters that I know of are A65 thru O-300. 360,470,520 &550 are all easily done. It’s as easy as pulling a cylinder on a Lycoming, and just as necessary. Clarence Thanks Clarence ! Quote
jaylw314 Posted June 22, 2018 Report Posted June 22, 2018 4 hours ago, M20Doc said: The only TCM engine that you can’t pull the lifters that I know of are A65 thru O-300. 360,470,520 &550 are all easily done. It’s as easy as pulling a cylinder on a Lycoming, and just as necessary. Clarence Off-topic, but can you pull the lifters in Lycomings with roller tappets easily? Quote
jetdriven Posted June 22, 2018 Report Posted June 22, 2018 Not possible. And idk why you would really want to. The rollers are tool steel and they don’t spall, they roll. 1 Quote
jaylw314 Posted June 22, 2018 Report Posted June 22, 2018 1 hour ago, jetdriven said: Not possible. And idk why you would really want to. The rollers are tool steel and they don’t spall, they roll. I was wondering whether it would be reasonable for prebuy inspections. The shape looks like they might be removable like the continental lifters, but I've not found anything that says they can or can't be for sure Quote
jetdriven Posted June 22, 2018 Report Posted June 22, 2018 (edited) They are not removable. There’s an oval shape machined Into the case and the lifters are installed from the inside. That flat spot goes agains the side of the lifter bore so it wont rotate. But it can’t be removed either. I think it’s totally stupid but that’s the way they did it. Edited June 22, 2018 by jetdriven 1 Quote
jaylw314 Posted June 22, 2018 Report Posted June 22, 2018 10 minutes ago, jetdriven said: They are not removable. There’s an oval shape machined Into the case and the lifters are installed from the inside. That flat spot goes agains the side of the lifter bore so it wont rotate. But it can’t be removed either. I think it’s totally stupid but that’s the way they did it. Thanks, I was wondering about that... Quote
Amelia Posted June 22, 2018 Report Posted June 22, 2018 I claim zero expertise, but my brother loved his Winchester-done Continental IO 550 in his C182. It is still running perfectly with good compressions at 2000 hours, but says there’s a gummint mandatory, though unnecessary overhaul. He has scheduled his next one there for this summer. Said they were prompt, did beautiful work, and he expects the next one will last him the rest of his career. Quote
hypertech Posted June 22, 2018 Author Report Posted June 22, 2018 Great to hear. I was there today and had a good impression. The cam is, as expected, damaged. And some of the cylinders are showing their age. The crank and connecting rods are in great shape. With only 1200 hours on it, its really in the grey area between doing the cam repair and cylinders vs the whole thing. You could probably flip a coin on it. Their are reasons to convince yourself both ways. I told them to go ahead with the overhaul. Its off the plane and the repair is basically half way to an overhaul anyway. Fingers crossed this means we are done with major projects for a while. 1 Quote
nfonville Posted June 23, 2018 Report Posted June 23, 2018 Was there a history of oil analysis being done? Quote
Hondo Posted June 27, 2018 Report Posted June 27, 2018 Does it make sense to overhaul an IO-360-A3B6D engine? Lycoming offers the following warranty for an IO-360-A3B6. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies The quotes I have seen for an overhaul of the A3B6D are around 30K. A rebuilt A3B6 is about 35.5K. All American’s valuation tool says the A3B6 adds about 4K to the plane’s value. It takes about a week to remove the old engine and install a rebuilt A3B6. It will probably take six weeks to overhaul the A3B6D and another week for installation. Shipping costs can be substantial. When it comes to sales taxes, location matters. Oklahoma has no sales tax on parts or labor. . Quote
carusoam Posted June 27, 2018 Report Posted June 27, 2018 The reason people want to see the cam and lifters in an IO360 is there is a history of people getting an engine that has sat... The resulting corrosion destroys the lifter’s surface and the cam hardened surface... together they destroy the cam’s lobes... If there isn’t a history of a roller cam doing the same thing... what would drive the decision to take one out for inspection? Shouldn’t the roller cams be showing corrosion issues by now? Have they been in service long enough, by enough unpredictable owners...to have enough experience to know? Best regards, -a- Quote
Hondo Posted June 28, 2018 Report Posted June 28, 2018 Correction, the link for the Lycoming warranty is actually. https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/New_Rebuilt_Engine Warranty_With Additional_12_Months.pdf Quote
Guest Posted June 28, 2018 Report Posted June 28, 2018 Two year warranty on a Factory engine worth twice the money of a car, which has 5 times the warranty period. Clarence Quote
Hondo Posted June 29, 2018 Report Posted June 29, 2018 Clarence, That's true and turbines engines are about 50 times more reliable than piston engines, but if you have an A3B6D, does it make more sense to overhaul the A3B6D or get a rebuilt A3B6? According to Air Power, Engines, most owners are choosing the A3B6. Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.