Looking for honest feed back on first pls e purchase

[Diver721]

It' a 66 mooney. Has less than 500 hours, older avionics but is ads B compliant. My only reserve is it does have recent damage history but is owned by air mods and they are doing all the work to repair it and coming out of a fresh annual. 

[cctsurf]

Honest opinion...  It's upside down. 

[Diver721]

Hahaha I don't know how or why that happened 

[cctsurf]

Just now, Diver721 said:

Hahaha I don't know how or why that happened 

Mooneyspace seems to like to do that.

[Charles22]

Less than 500 hours TT or engine time? Would depend on price, damage, history, corrosion. Air Mods is a great shop so at least in that regard it was fixed well. 

[Diver721]

How did you get that done

[1964-M20E]

Get you another mechanic and have him go there while they are dong the repairs / annual and do an inspection and see exactly what they are doing.  Everything is already open your mechanic does not have to open and close only inspect.

Do your own inspection while everything is open as well.

 

 

 

 

[Diver721]

It was a gear up. Had an appraiser do some investigating and said he could nearly see no damage. Asking 45

[cctsurf]

A few things:

Damage history can be a lot of things.  A light gear-up can be repaired completely and can have some advantages.  Things like a new prop and a one-piece belly.  A bad gear up can twist the airframe and never be put right.

Check for corrosion, especially on the wing spars or on the cockpit cage.  Corrosion on those can be immensely expensive.

500 hours on airframe since 1966 is approximately 12 hours per year.  That really concerns me.   I would rather see an airplane that has been flown.  That low of hours requires a great deal of explanation.  On the other hand, 500 hours on the engine with a decent amount on the airframe would be a much more desirable situation.  A 500 hour engine is in its prime.

I would honestly be looking for another option.  I would think that much better C models can be had for 45k if that is what you meant.  Look for something that has better avionics, etc.  As to the interior, that can be fixed fairly cheaply.

 

[Diver721]

I dont have the details but i do know the engine has been gone through in accordance with lycomings specifications.

[MARZ]

48 minutes ago, cctsurf said:

Honest opinion...  It's upside down. 

Didn't think Mooney's were approved for inverted flight....

[jaylw314]

59 minutes ago, Diver721 said:

It' a 66 mooney. Has less than 500 hours, older avionics but is ads B compliant. My only reserve is it does have recent damage history but is owned by air mods and they are doing all the work to repair it and coming out of a fresh annual. 

I guess we should ask what kind of feedback you're looking for?  Like the cost?  The risk?  Or what people think of the 66 F model?  Most of those questions are tough to answer without information about you and the plane...

Edit: Oops, I think I mirrored @David Herman's questions above

Edited February 15, 2018 by jaylw314

[Diver721]

My main mission will be weekend trips from upstate Ny to Va and Nc. I will also be getting my IFR rating and have been holding out to learn in the plane i purchase. This price is mid range of where i wanted to be.

[klystron]

In addition to what others have said:

1) When was it last flown.
2) How frequently has it been flown in the last year. 

A standard gear up landing a long time ago is not really an issue as long as it was repaired well. Almost every 50+ yr old retract has had a gear up at least once in its life. 

Paint looks good, (might want to check that it was properly stripped before it was repainted), Interior looks good. Panel is lacking tbh. Doe is have autopilot? WAAS GPS?

[PaulM]

Airmods is a good shop. if they fixed it, it is fixed.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2017/07/mooney-m20c-n2596w-incident-occurred.html

[DXB]

Airmods is a more than capable shop, particularly when it comes to damage repair on Mooneys. Dealing with gear ups on Mooneys is routine for them.  They are unlikely to try to sell you something where they've done a shoddy repair.

That said, even good maintenance shops have a serious conflict of interest when selling planes.  Also they are regional experts in these planes,  so findings on a prebuy by another expert MSC with similar reputation may be the only thing taken seriously by them when negotiating.  Consider getting a prebuy inspect by Weber at KLNS.

It's worth knowing if they are selling it on consignment for another owner, in which case there is more negotiating room potentially, or they own it outright, in which case they must preserve their margin on the sale. 

 

[Diver721]

I believe it is owned outright.

[cctsurf]

1 hour ago, Diver721 said:

My main mission will be weekend trips from upstate Ny to Va and Nc. I will also be getting my IFR rating and have been holding out to learn in the plane i purchase. This price is mid range of where i wanted to be.

A couple of things I note here.  How many people on the weekend trips?  If you are going to carry more than 2 and 2 double amputees, the smaller -C model is very tight (despite what @Marauder does with his girls...) 

As to IFR training, at least I would want to rearrange that instrument panel into a standard 6-pack configuration for that.

If you look around, you may be able to get a better equipped C or E model or even an F or G in your price range.  As to price range, you should also remember that after paying for the plane, there are almost always a number of things that we don't catch in pre-buy inspection that will require a number of dollars to keep the plane airworthy.

[mike_elliott]

1 hour ago, David Herman said:

Has it been angered?

Ill bet it was when it was geared up.

[cliffy]

Gear up Lycoming inspection can be as little as remove the rear case and inspect the crank drive gear and replace its locking tab OR it can mean a complete teardown and reassemble. Only the later would suffice for me given the age of the engine and as little flying it has done. Low time isn't always a plus. With a complete tear down given that it is being sold by a reputable firm makes the issues less BUT any airplane can and will have issues not found until ownership. A lot of flying can be done with the panel it has even if the "glass panel snobs" :-)  think otherwise. Lots of US have them.  

Corrosion is always the issue. Many here have been caught by its insidious nature. 

My rule for buying airplanes- NEVER BUY THE FIRST ONE YOU LOOK AT NO MATTER HOW GOOD IT LOOKS, you don't know enough yet.

[Diver721]

The panel doesn't bother but the gut feeling I'm getting is. I feel like if I keep searching I may find one better at a better price. The o my people flying with me is my wife and two toddlers. Mainly tho just me and my son go up together and we leave the girls at home.

[Diver721]

1963 Mooney M20C, Newport Beach CA - - Aerotrader.com
https://www.aerotrader.com/listing/1963-Mooney-M20C-5001639198/?zmc=leadReceipts-adDetail

 

 

This is the other that has really caught my eye

[EricJ]

I don't see an engine monitor or an autopilot, the avionics are little old, but otherwise it looks very nice to me from what one can tell from pics.   Look at it in person if you can, as that is always way more revealing than pics.   Then get a Mooney-literate A&P to do a pre-purchase inspection (or some sort of inspection, maybe a quick one since it's AirMods), and see if you can find out how much wiggle room they have on the price.   

 

[MyNameIsNobody]

Is it 500 total time on engine and airframe?

Is it 500 hours on the current engine since overhaul?

If this is 500 hours on a ‘66 engine I would have a lot of concerns.  I would price it taking into account a $35k engine overhaul soon.

Avionics is meh.  As stated no engine monitor or auto-pilot and the shotgun panel and old ADF on co-pilot is a boat anchor.  You will be doing some avionics work.

Interior seat color is O.K., but dated (which is a minor point as you can do yourself)...BUT it is dated.

I would wonder about seals on flaps/brakes/tank sealant and of course tube/spar and wing corrosion.

I think the plane is priced HIGH based on stated and unknowns of a recent gear-up...

My 2cents.

It is nicer than my Mooney-pit ‘66 when I found her 15 years ago.

Good luck as you pursue your Vintage E.  My serial number is 1120.

[Hank]

12 minutes ago, David Herman said:

iPad auto -correct ... gotta love it!

I love it so much that I turned it off. Apple's version is pretty cheesy anyway, only giving 3 possible choices and sometimes none at all until the last couple of letters. My Samsung suggests up to a dozen or more words, beginning with the first letter I type. But I still keep the auto-change turned off. I pick what I want to save typing or correct mistakes, which occur much more frequently than with a physical keyboard . . . .