STEC 3100 Digital Autopilot

[MIm20c]

Noticed Sarasota had the 3100 for 16 ish amu’s.  Curious if anyone is getting a discount on the upgrade price ~15-20%?  Getting closer to the adorable range, hard to believe my old 50 system is still listing for 13k...

[jhbehrens]

My PO has been in for a few weeks. Where are we now?

Does anyone have the latest on Aspen integration? I head Aspen told people at Oshkosh it has moved to next year. Their 55x integration also came out more than 4 years after they initially promised...

 

[Marauder]

My PO has been in for a few weeks. Where are we now?
Does anyone have the latest on Aspen integration? I head Aspen told people at Oshkosh it has moved to next year. Their 55x integration also came out more than 4 years after they initially promised...
 

I’ve been speaking with the Beech owner who was the STC plane for the 3100. He has an Aspen and said Aspen indicated the firmware update would be released in July. Nothing yet.


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[mike_elliott]

Just now, Marauder said:

 

I’ve been speaking with the Beech owner who was the STC plane for the 3100. He has an Aspen and said Aspen indicated the firmware update would be released in July. Nothing yet.


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Que PTK

[Amelia]

I bugged my favorite Avionics guy again, and I think my po has been sent. Maybe twice. What gives? Plaintive voice from the back seat: “Are we there yet? “

Edited August 10, 2018 by Amelia

[Marauder]

I bugged my favorite Avionics guy again, and I think my po has been sent. Maybe twice. What gives? Plaintive voice from the back seat: “Are we there yet? “

These shops are getting extremely busy and even the shop where I left an entire bank account never responded to my PO request.


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[Jerry 5TJ]

2 hours ago, Marauder said:

These shops are getting extremely busy and even the shop where I left an entire bank account never responded to my PO request.

 

Maddening, eh?  

 

[Cris]

On 8/10/2018 at 9:53 AM, Amelia said:

I bugged my favorite Avionics guy again, and I think my po has been sent. Maybe twice. What gives? Plaintive voice from the back seat: “Are we there yet? “

I checked with Barry to see where we are and he asked that I post this for the group.

Hi, I am on holiday in Canada, I will return on Tuesday next week. As of now the October STC was filled and looking at the January STC start time. If you would please relay my message and I will follow up when I get back state side.

Thank you for your efforts.

Thank you and Best Regards,
Barry LeBlanc
Genesys Aerosystems 
Regional Sales Manager
C: 940.327.0707 
F: 940.328.8808
 

[MIm20c]

On 8/5/2018 at 6:34 AM, Marauder said:

What some are waiting for is the Aspen integration. Like with the STEC 55X, you will be able to do the altitude preselects and vertical speed on the Aspens and hopefully since the 3100 has IAS climbs, select it for indicated airspeed climbs  

I found this information very helpful. Looks like the integration with aspen version 2.9.1 will be amazing.  Also the install wiring is easier. One thing I haven’t noticed mentioned so far is if you don’t have an EFIS (esi500 and sam included) you will need to buy a $3k air/data computer (about the same cost as a g5).  

With the G500 system you get integrated VS selection vs the aspen giving you IAS control.

I wish I could trade my warranty for a couple rebuilds on my servos. It would probably push me over the edge. 

[Jeff_S]

Dare I ask what the status is here? Do we have the 15 no-deposit, no-risk PO’s into Genesys yet so we can get this scheduled?

[MIm20c]

27 minutes ago, Jeff_S said:

Dare I ask what the status is here? Do we have the 15 no-deposit, no-risk PO’s into Genesys yet so we can get this scheduled?

A couple weeks ago we reached the magic number.  Scheduled to start the process first part of ‘19 I think. 

[Cris]

On 8/18/2018 at 12:26 PM, MIm20c said:

I found this information very helpful. Looks like the integration with aspen version 2.9.1 will be amazing.  Also the install wiring is easier. One thing I haven’t noticed mentioned so far is if you don’t have an EFIS (esi500 and sam included) you will need to buy a $3k air/data computer (about the same cost as a g5).  

Found this from Jack Somsen on Beechtalk. Looks like the ADC is included at no extra cost. This might push me to upgrade for sure. 

“The 3100 takes some of that info from steam gauges and some from an ADC. If you don't have an ADC, we provide one as part of the kit (no additional cost). If you have an EFIS, we use that as the main source. In your case, it looks like we would use info from the Garmin GPS and the ADC we provide. You would retain your S-TEC servos and replace the 55X control head with the 3100 (in simple terms). 

Shoot me an email at jack.somsen@genesys-aerosystems.com and I can provide contact info for the dealers in Australia. We have a few options for you. 

We have started the STC for the 310/320/340 airframes and you still have time to get in on the extended warranty. And that includes 2 years on your existing S-TEC servos...”

[Marauder]

2 hours ago, Cris said:

Found this from Jack Somsen on Beechtalk. Looks like the ADC is included at no extra cost. This might push me to upgrade for sure. 

“The 3100 takes some of that info from steam gauges and some from an ADC. If you don't have an ADC, we provide one as part of the kit (no additional cost). If you have an EFIS, we use that as the main source. In your case, it looks like we would use info from the Garmin GPS and the ADC we provide. You would retain your S-TEC servos and replace the 55X control head with the 3100 (in simple terms). 

Shoot me an email at jack.somsen@genesys-aerosystems.com and I can provide contact info for the dealers in Australia. We have a few options for you. 

We have started the STC for the 310/320/340 airframes and you still have time to get in on the extended warranty. And that includes 2 years on your existing S-TEC servos...”

Not sure you received the email from STEC on the reusing of servos. Thought it was an interesting email, seems others like me have concerns of spending in excess of $10k for a "new" autopilot and reusing 20 year old servos.

[Niko182]

13 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Not sure you received the email from STEC on the reusing of servos. Thought it was an interesting email, seems others like me have concerns of spending in excess of $10k for a "new" autopilot and reusing 20 year old servos.

Whats wrong with using old servos? If they work they work. If they dont, they get fixed or replaced anyway within the 2 (some 3) years. and after the warrenty expires then you deal with it, but this is aviation ownership.you need to pay to get them fixed but the reliability of stec servos is pretty high up there. Most of the issues pertaining to servos are connection issues and even those are pretty rare. I will say there is a very simple solution to get rid of the 20 year old servos. Just buy an entire system plus 100 hours install time. But im more than happy that they offer an option to save over 15 grand and stick with the current servos and just replace the box and give or take 25 hours of install. Why fix something if it aint broke.

 

Just my worthless 2 cents

Edited August 30, 2018 by Niko182

[Cris]

9 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Not sure you received the email from STEC on the reusing of servos. Thought it was an interesting email, seems others like me have concerns of spending in excess of $10k for a "new" autopilot and reusing 20 year old servos.

Yes I think it probably went to anyone that has expressed interest. Presumably the servo’s will be certified as part of the installation. With a two year warranty on something that has proven itself I’m ok with that. The “other guys” only offer a 1-2 year warranty on their “new”. For me it’s a non issue but I do understand the point. 

[Marauder]

Whats wrong with using old servos? If they work they work. If they dont, they get fixed or replaced anyway within the 2 (some 3) years. and after the warrenty expires then you deal with it, but this is aviation ownership.you need to pay to get them fixed but the reliability of stec servos is pretty high up there. Most of the issues pertaining to servos are connection issues and even those are pretty rare. I will say there is a very simple solution to get rid of the 20 year old servos. Just buy an entire system plus 100 hours install time. But im more than happy that they offer an option to save over 15 grand and stick with the current servos and just replace the box and give or take 25 hours of install. Why fix something if it aint broke.
 
Just my worthless 2 cents

It’s about the math. The new Garmin GFC-500 is expected to be priced around $8k with all new new digital servos. STEC’s response has been the 3100 is performing more like the GFC 600. I haven’t seen any data to support this.

STEC is reusing analog servos using PWM to control them. Working in the electronics industry, I will be curious to see how they fair. We are not talking reusing stepper motors or other motors designed to work with digital drivers. The Garmin GFC is a ground up product and if the price point holds, would I be willing to spend $12,000 to have a completely new autopilot or $12,000 (that is what I was quoted to upgrade my 60-2).

If the 3100 does perform on par with the GFC 600, it would be an easier sale to me.



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[MIm20c]

 

37 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Not sure you received the email from STEC on the reusing of servos. Thought it was an interesting email, seems others like me have concerns of spending in excess of $10k for a "new" autopilot and reusing 20 year old servos.

I did not get the email but I assume it talked about not being able to reuse the servos if they did not reach a certain standard?

[Niko182]

19 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

It’s about the math. The new Garmin GFC-500 is expected to be priced around $8k with all new new digital servos. STEC’s response has been the 3100 is performing more like the GFC 600. I haven’t seen any data to support this.

STEC is reusing analog servos using PWM to control them. Working in the electronics industry, I will be curious to see how they fair. We are not talking reusing stepper motors or other motors designed to work with digital drivers. The Garmin GFC is a ground up product and if the price point holds, would I be willing to spend $12,000 to have a completely new autopilot or $12,000 (that is what I was quoted to upgrade my 60-2).

If the 3100 does perform on par with the GFC 600, it would be an easier sale to me.



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Both the stec 3100 and the gfc500 look good to me, but other than weight category, what can the 600 do that the 500 can't. I've searched for this but garmin doesn't seem to define the differences, capability wise, other than in a weight class. the 3100 also has an internal AHRS which I personally like more than buying a G5, and the thing of the GFC500 that truly annoys me, is that garmin thought it would be a great idea to avoid posting the dimensions of the GFC500 throughout the entire internet, so I don't even know if it'll fit in my panel. It does look like it has an odd size.

The STC for the 3100 starts in January. when does it start for the 500?

[201Mooniac]

The dimensions for the GMC-507 mode controller for the GFC-500 can be found in the experimental G5 installation manual in Appendix A.  

 

[201Mooniac]

While I'm not certain, I've heard from others on mooneyspace that certification on both a 231 and a Bravo have already started and that should cover medium and long bodies of all types.

Edited August 30, 2018 by 201Mooniac

[Cris]

As Marauder points out a lot depends on the math. Clearly if you have an Stec autopilot the upgrade path is quite competitive for a similar system ie Garmin. I don’t look at Trio/Trutrack as having similar capabilities. What needs to be considered is that the Garmin GFC500 requires 1-2 G5’s which adds to the cost. However if you have G5’s you don’t look at it from that perspective. There also is a higher install cost with the Garmin as the existing servo’s need to be removed and new ones installed. How much will the shop charge for that? Would 25 hours more or less be a good guess? Stec is like the Swiss Army knife of autopilots and will interface with all your existing equipment including steam gauges and EFIS. If you have steam gauges they provide an Air Data Computer as part of the kit at no additional charge according to Jack Somsen of Genysis which is huge. So the Stec install includes all of the bits and pieces at one stated upgrade cost based on the specific aircraft in which it will be installed. In my case I like what I have so this works well for me and is probably less expensive than what the GFC500 will ultimately cost. For others the numbers and equipment might be different. 

Edited August 31, 2018 by Cris
GFC500

[Marauder]

15 minutes ago, Cris said:

As Marauder points out a lot depends on the math. Clearly if you have an Stec autopilot the upgrade path is quite competitive for a similar system ie Garmin. I don’t look at Trio/Trutrack as having similar capabilities. What needs to be considered is that the Garmin GFC500 requires 1-2 G5’s which adds to the cost. However if you have G5’s you don’t look at it from that perspective. There also is a higher install cost with the Garmin as the existing servo’s need to be removed and new ones installed. How much will the shop charge for that? Would 25 hours more or less be a good guess? Stec is like the Swiss Army knife of autopilots and will interface with all your existing equipment including steam gauges and EFIS. If you have steam gauges they provide an Air Data Computer as part of the kit at no additional charge according to Jack Somsen of Genysis which is huge. So the Stec install includes all of the bits and pieces at one stated upgrade cost based on the specific aircraft in which it will be installed. In my case I like what I have so this works well for me and is probably less expensive than what the G5 will ultimately cost. For others the numbers and equipment might be different. 

What I think will change my decision is what, if any, integrations will occur with these vendors. If Garmin introduces the GFC 500 and it integrates with the Aspen either initially or is being planned, it would factor into my decision. I wouldn't want to add a G5 just to manage the autopilot. 

[MIm20c]

36 minutes ago, Marauder said:

What I think will change my decision is what, if any, integrations will occur with these vendors. If Garmin introduces the GFC 500 and it integrates with the Aspen either initially or is being planned, it would factor into my decision. I wouldn't want to add a G5 just to manage the autopilot. 

I think you can bank on the Garmin AP accepting the heading and approach info from the aspen. However, I would be very surprised if Garmin allows AP control through the Aspen.  The TT and stec will be far more integrated IMO.

[Marauder]

I think you can bank on the Garmin AP accepting the heading and approach info from the aspen. However, I would be very surprised if Garmin allows AP control through the Aspen.  The TT and stec will be far more integrated IMO.

Garmin has always been an interesting case study with respect to integrations. If there is money to be made, Garmin will look at it. The GTX-345 integration with the Aspens is an example of that. Clearly, GTX-345 units would not be sold to Aspen owners if the ADS-B in content wouldn't display. At other times, they have supported the integration although there was no monetary benefit to them. Example of this is the L-3 WX-500 integration with the GTN series. But at other times, they only do part of it. An example of that is the L-3 9000+ that works with the GTN for TIS-B but FIS-B is not shown.

The GFC 500 integration depends on how they approach this business opportunity. Aspen owners obviously aren't going to rip out their Aspens to get the GFC 500. Nor will most spend the extra money to toss a G5 in the panel and have two systems to manage. I think there are around 10k Aspen systems in use. 

 

 

[Steve W]

One thing to note is that the G5 is the GFC500 controller. Sure it has a control panel but all the brains. AHRS, Air Data, etc are all the G5. If you want a GFC500 with the G500Txi you'll still have to install at least one G5. I suspect if there were Aspen integration that it would be the same. The GFC600 is more of the STEC stand-alone autopilot competitor.