Yetti Posted December 27, 2017 Report Posted December 27, 2017 (edited) Could someone... not you of course left the master on? Or the Master solenoid welded closed. OR one of the baggage/overhead lights on? Edited December 27, 2017 by Yetti Quote
BillC Posted December 28, 2017 Author Report Posted December 28, 2017 2 hours ago, Yetti said: Could someone... not you of course left the master on? Or the Master solenoid welded closed. OR one of the baggage/overhead lights on? No. The first thing I checked was to make sure I had secured the airplane before leaving the airport. Even if the master was left on it should only have drained one battery. Not sure what powers the baggage/overhead lights, but I pulled the baggage lightbulb when I found out it is not on a timer like the newer Ovations. The thoughts now are a bad solenoid or a blown diode. The avionics/electrical guy will troubleshoot the system Friday now that the batteries can be used for test purposes. Oddly enough, they just had a Cessna Columbia in the shop. It also has dual 24v batteries. They found both batteries had failed at the same time. After they troubleshoot my system I'm having them do the SB M20-275 which is the install of three fuses to preclude the possibility of a diode or solenoid failure and draining both batteries. The saga continues. Quote
Yetti Posted December 28, 2017 Report Posted December 28, 2017 I've seen solenoids weld closed. The clock, the overhead eyeball light in the F are on a hot circuit. The eyeball circuit has some bare hot wires that would be easy to short to the skin. It had to have a short or a good sized load to take them down to that low of voltage. 1 Quote
carusoam Posted December 28, 2017 Report Posted December 28, 2017 For reference... Three weeks of no use will not kill an ordinary Concorde battery in an Ovation.... It will take a few months of not being charged to show a real discharge. Even then the BatteryMinder charges them without difficulty... See if using the batteries helps bring them back. The battery desulfonater process of the BatteryMinder might be of service as well. It may make a lot of sense to have the BatteryMinder always connected while on the ground. Get the Y cable for that two battery system. Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
BillC Posted December 28, 2017 Author Report Posted December 28, 2017 7 hours ago, carusoam said: For reference... Three weeks of no use will not kill an ordinary Concorde battery in an Ovation.... It will take a few months of not being charged to show a real discharge. Even then the BatteryMinder charges them without difficulty... See if using the batteries helps bring them back. The battery desulfonater process of the BatteryMinder might be of service as well. It may make a lot of sense to have the BatteryMinder always connected while on the ground. Get the Y cable for that two battery system. Best regards, -a- Thanks A, I have the batteries wired with quick disconnects in the hat rack. This way I can leave the BatteryMINDer plugged in via the baggage door without having to remove the side panels to access the batteries. I spoke with the tech at BatteryMINDer yesterday. He thought by leaving the unit plugged in for a week or two might get the capacity numbers back to normal. We'll see tomorrow how the mechanics make out. Thanks for the advice, Bill 1 Quote
ArtVandelay Posted December 28, 2017 Report Posted December 28, 2017 If they do come back, I would do a capacity check before trusting them. Quote
DonMuncy Posted December 28, 2017 Report Posted December 28, 2017 12 hours ago, carusoam said: It may make a lot of sense to have the BatteryMinder always connected while on the ground. I agree for the most part. But keep in mind that it can mask a failed battery. Several years ago (after having a BM hooked up full time) I flew to FL, and a few days later when I was ready to return, my battery had died. Probably the most prudent system would be to make sure your battery was capacity tested at every annual. I strongly suspect that most IAs don't routinely do it. 2 Quote
carusoam Posted December 29, 2017 Report Posted December 29, 2017 One important thing to look into with the BM... 1) it may be able to recharge the dead battery. 2) Some battery types are more susceptible to the side effects of deep discharge. Ions collecting on the plates causing interference. 3) The batteryMinder uses an electrical process that tries to eliminate the ion deposits. Look up the desulfator instructions for the BM. 4) The only way to know how well the battery works after that is the load test... 5) even the load test isn't very battery friendly. 6) exercising the battery through its full range is a good idea... fully charged down to nearly empty... 7) keep in mind nearly empty, in battery terms, will still be near the 24V level... when it falls below this level it goes into the depletion category. 8) If the two Concordes come back and pass the load test. There are going to be some celebrations... Go Concorde! Best regards, -a- Quote
mike_elliott Posted December 29, 2017 Report Posted December 29, 2017 On 12/28/2017 at 8:23 AM, BillC said: Thanks A, I have the batteries wired with quick disconnects in the hat rack. This way I can leave the BatteryMINDer plugged in via the baggage door without having to remove the side panels to access the batteries. I spoke with the tech at BatteryMINDer yesterday. He thought by leaving the unit plugged in for a week or two might get the capacity numbers back to normal. We'll see tomorrow how the mechanics make out. Thanks for the advice, Bill Was at American yesterday with a transition student (SW737 captain in his J) and saw them moving an O around on a tug, I thought it must have been yours Bill. Quote
BillC Posted December 30, 2017 Author Report Posted December 30, 2017 3 hours ago, mike_elliott said: Was at American yesterday with a transition student (SW737 captain in his J) and saw them moving an O around on a tug, I thought it must have been yours Bill. Yes Mike, I 'm currently the only Ovation at the FBO. Blue and White, N2121S. I was there, sorry I missed you. Quote
BillC Posted December 30, 2017 Author Report Posted December 30, 2017 UPDATE: After a few days troubleshooting the electrical system the mechanic found no obvious problems. All relays were functioning properly, the diode pack was operating correctly, and all switches and wiring were in very good condition. After reinstalling the batteries he noticed the baggage light ON. I thought I had removed the light months ago but apparently during annual, the mechanic reinstalled it without me knowing. When I called him last night he mentioned replacing the bulb but forgot to add it to the logbook entry. I must have hit the switch while removing bags after arriving in Florida and in the bright sun I didn't see it. Unfortunately what we did find, after the light fiasco, is that my electrical system is different from the Mooney maintenance schematic. My baggage light operates on BOTH batteries. Not just #1. That is what threw me. Both batteries dying when I thought only #1 should have failed. This is a hard post for me to write. I should have known my great mechanic would have caught everything and checked the light myself. Anyway, I want to thank you all for helping to resolve my problem. I owe you all a frosty beverage. 1 Quote
bonal Posted December 30, 2017 Report Posted December 30, 2017 Good news if that's all it was. Can the bats be recovered or are they done for. Quote
DonMuncy Posted December 30, 2017 Report Posted December 30, 2017 46 minutes ago, BillC said: UPDATE: After a few days troubleshooting the electrical system the mechanic found no obvious problems. All relays were functioning properly, the diode pack was operating correctly, and all switches and wiring were in very good condition. After reinstalling the batteries he noticed the baggage light ON. I thought I had removed the light months ago but apparently during annual, the mechanic reinstalled it without me knowing. When I called him last night he mentioned replacing the bulb but forgot to add it to the logbook entry. I must have hit the switch while removing bags after arriving in Florida and in the bright sun I didn't see it. Unfortunately what we did find, after the light fiasco, is that my electrical system is different from the Mooney maintenance schematic. My baggage light operates on BOTH batteries. Not just #1. That is what threw me. Both batteries dying when I thought only #1 should have failed. This is a hard post for me to write. I should have known my great mechanic would have caught everything and checked the light myself. Anyway, I want to thank you all for helping to resolve my problem. I owe you all a frosty beverage. You really need to get your A&P or hangar elf to install a timer into your cabin/baggage light circuit. It is far cheaper than a battery. 1 Quote
BillC Posted December 30, 2017 Author Report Posted December 30, 2017 21 minutes ago, bonal said: Good news if that's all it was. Can the bats be recovered or are they done for. So far they are holding voltage at about 25.4 but the capacity check is still in question. Hopefully the BatteryMINDer will help over the next few weeks. 1 Quote
BillC Posted December 30, 2017 Author Report Posted December 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, DonMuncy said: You really need to get your A&P or hangar elf to install a timer into your cabin/baggage light circuit. It is far cheaper than a battery. Your right Don, I found a Mooney retrofit kit for the timer/switch. It would definitely be the fix. Thanks, Bill Quote
mike_elliott Posted December 30, 2017 Report Posted December 30, 2017 13 hours ago, BillC said: Yes Mike, I 'm currently the only Ovation at the FBO. Blue and White, N2121S. I was there, sorry I missed you. Bill, are you based there? Dennis Destafano has a 2000 Ovation there also now. Quote
BillC Posted December 30, 2017 Author Report Posted December 30, 2017 1 hour ago, mike_elliott said: Bill, are you based there? Dennis Destafano has a 2000 Ovation there also now. Yes, Mike. This is my new base for the winter. I haven't had the pleasure of meeting Dennis but I'll be on the lookout for him. Thanks. Quote
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