reasons for having a GTN750 and 650?

[Marauder]

This is why I absolutely consider a second com radio as essential to IFR flight. With a second com I am one radio transmission from getting radar vectors to VFR conditions. And I also have a dedicated portable GPS (NOT an iPad) that I practice flying approaches with down to non-precision approach minimums, in case of an emergency.

I will never think that an iPad (or 2) is an acceptable means of navigation, regardless of AHRS or anything else, even in an emergency. 

But it sounds like a lot of people are trying to justify their avionics purchases by implying that everyone else is either reckless or unsafe. 

 

As a firm believer in redundancy, having anything as a backup is a whole lot better than what was a available years ago (aka nothing). The weak link in the navigation chain for those of us without dual alternators and batteries is the limitations of the electrical system.

 

I spent a fair amount of time determining potential battery life and what would happen in the case of complete electrical failure. A second Nav/Com is part of that strategy but also having equipment with their own power supplies is part of that approach.

 

Starting with the electrical system, I have painstakingly looked up and determined the load each piece of electronic equipment would pull. I color coded my breakers to clearly denote which breakers needed to be pulled and which could stay. Even with that, understanding that long communications on a Com radio will have an impact on that battery life calculation.

 

To stack the deck further in my favor, I have installed equipment in the plane that carry their own battery supplies and are redundant to each other. The Aspens will store the active flight plan from the GPS and with its own GPS receiver, can continue to track the progress against the flight plan. The L3 ESI-500 also has its own battery and has Nav enablement turned on so it will function like a conventional CDI in case the Aspens are depleted.

 

For Com redundancy, I have a Vertex portable with an antenna that can be mounted on the glass. I originally had the KX-99 interface that allowed the external Com antenna to be used with the portable. It has been since removed due to issues it caused with the panel Com radio (looking for an alternative - might end up with a third Com antenna). The Vertex has both Com and Nav functions.

 

Like Andy, I don’t consider iPads are acceptable backups but I do carry them onboard (2 iPads and an iPhone) as the last resort tool.

 

And finally, I have looked into a B&C standby alternator that can be installed on my vacuum pump pad. May do that next year once the financials settle down from this year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[aviatoreb]

20 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

As a firm believer in redundancy, having anything as a backup is a whole lot better than what was a available years ago (aka nothing). The weak link in the navigation chain for those of us without dual alternators and batteries is the limitations of the electrical system.

 

I spent a fair amount of time determining potential battery life and what would happen in the case of complete electrical failure. A second Nav/Com is part of that strategy but also having equipment with their own power supplies is part of that approach.

 

Starting with the electrical system, I have painstakingly looked up and determined the load each piece of electronic equipment would pull. I color coded my breakers to clearly denote which breakers needed to be pulled and which could stay. Even with that, understanding that long communications on a Com radio will have an impact on that battery life calculation.

 

To stack the deck further in my favor, I have installed equipment in the plane that carry their own battery supplies and are redundant to each other. The Aspens will store the active flight plan from the GPS and with its own GPS receiver, can continue to track the progress against the flight plan. The L3 ESI-500 also has its own battery and has Nav enablement turned on so it will function like a conventional CDI in case the Aspens are depleted.

 

For Com redundancy, I have a Vertex portable with an antenna that can be mounted on the glass. I originally had the KX-99 interface that allowed the external Com antenna to be used with the portable. It has been since removed due to issues it caused with the panel Com radio (looking for an alternative - might end up with a third Com antenna). The Vertex has both Com and Nav functions.

 

Like Andy, I don’t consider iPads are acceptable backups but I do carry them onboard (2 iPads and an iPhone) as the last resort tool.

 

And finally, I have looked into a B&C standby alternator that can be installed on my vacuum pump pad. May do that next year once the financials settle down from this year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

I wish.... someday the IDEAL redundant backup would include a hybrid electric power system, an engine with electric drive where the electric can power the shaft-prop if the engine dies and vice versa.

[donkaye, MCFI]

14 hours ago, jetdriven said:

You really need a second nav/com with indicator. I know people think the iPad is great but if the big GPS box packs it in, you have to navigate to get out of those clouds. 

ESI 500 does the trick.

[carusoam]

Battery technology is improving...

second alternators are becoming popular...

Vacuum instruments are being replaced by electronic versions...

Vacuum pumps are less appreciated each day...

Mechanical relays are even becoming a quirky old fashioned device...

even some nav coms are complete with attitude displays...

MS keeps sharing information that moves this stuff forwards...

Best regards,

-a-

[donkaye, MCFI]

3 hours ago, Andy95W said:

This is why I absolutely consider a second com radio as essential to IFR flight. With a second com I am one radio transmission from getting radar vectors to VFR conditions. And I also have a dedicated portable GPS (NOT an iPad) that I practice flying approaches with down to non-precision approach minimums, in case of an emergency.

I will never think that an iPad (or 2) is an acceptable means of navigation, regardless of AHRS or anything else, even in an emergency. 

But it sounds like a lot of people are trying to justify their avionics purchases by implying that everyone else is either reckless or unsafe. 

No, just a lot more comfortable and much, much less stressful.

[jetdriven]

2 hours ago, Marauder said:

 

As a firm believer in redundancy, having anything as a backup is a whole lot better than what was a available years ago (aka nothing). The weak link in the navigation chain for those of us without dual alternators and batteries is the limitations of the electrical system.

 

I spent a fair amount of time determining potential battery life and what would happen in the case of complete electrical failure. A second Nav/Com is part of that strategy but also having equipment with their own power supplies is part of that approach.

 

Starting with the electrical system, I have painstakingly looked up and determined the load each piece of electronic equipment would pull. I color coded my breakers to clearly denote which breakers needed to be pulled and which could stay. Even with that, understanding that long communications on a Com radio will have an impact on that battery life calculation.

 

To stack the deck further in my favor, I have installed equipment in the plane that carry their own battery supplies and are redundant to each other. The Aspens will store the active flight plan from the GPS and with its own GPS receiver, can continue to track the progress against the flight plan. The L3 ESI-500 also has its own battery and has Nav enablement turned on so it will function like a conventional CDI in case the Aspens are depleted.

 

For Com redundancy, I have a Vertex portable with an antenna that can be mounted on the glass. I originally had the KX-99 interface that allowed the external Com antenna to be used with the portable. It has been since removed due to issues it caused with the panel Com radio (looking for an alternative - might end up with a third Com antenna). The Vertex has both Com and Nav functions.

 

Like Andy, I don’t consider iPads are acceptable backups but I do carry them onboard (2 iPads and an iPhone) as the last resort tool.

 

And finally, I have looked into a B&C standby alternator that can be installed on my vacuum pump pad. May do that next year once the financials settle down from this year.

Have you verified that thing will show an ILS and you can actually fly it?  Every time I hear of someone trying to use a handheld com either the battery is dead or it won’t transmit very far. Just wondering. I think at a minimum you would need to somehow verify battery capacity and to verify it’s charged before taking off 

 

[Andy95W]

2 hours ago, donkaye said:

No, just a lot more comfortable and much, much less stressful.

I absolutely and completely understand that sentiment, as well as Marauder's, above.

If I truly needed reliable, low IFR capability in my Mooney, I would equip it similarly.

[Oscar Avalle]

I have a 750, a 650 and a 795 linked to together. How do I use them? 

The 750 I use for navigation and approaches. 

The 650 for traffic and Stormscope weather information and back up.

The 795 I use for Nexrad and information purposes and of course back up. 

Overkill, yes, but nice. 

[82Mike]

I don’t know about all the slamming on the iPad.  I went with just the 750 and 3 Aspens/G5.  I am pretty sure my Aspens/G5 would hold a course long enough for me get down?  As far as an approach I think iPad would work pretty well to non precision minimums?  Anyone simply ask for a PAR?  Second Nav/com (old King 155 works fine) for sure a must.  Second GPS not as sold.

[jetdriven]

And iPad is not intendedfor, nor does have the proper lateral resolution to use for any type of an actual instrument approach.  Certainly not any vertical guidance.   You’d have to be several failure layers deep to be at that point and I don’t ever plan on being there. Worst case alternator failure and your 200 miles from an aisport above minimims. Turn everything off, gang bar the whole thing, and fly for 90 minutes by dead reckoning using your iPad to get near the airport you’re going to do an approach then turn it all back on and do the ILS,but I see people try to think that they can use an iPad to get down below the clouds and shoot a real approach and I wonder. It’s not suitable for that.  

[ragedracer1977]

1 hour ago, jetdriven said:

And iPad is not intendedfor, nor does have the proper lateral resolution to use for any type of an actual instrument approach.  Certainly not any vertical guidance.   You’d have to be several failure layers deep to be at that point and I don’t ever plan on being there. Worst case alternator failure and your 200 miles from an aisport above minimims. Turn everything off, gang bar the whole thing, and fly for 90 minutes by dead reckoning using your iPad to get near the airport you’re going to do an approach then turn it all back on and do the ILS,but I see people try to think that they can use an iPad to get down below the clouds and shoot a real approach and I wonder. It’s not suitable for that.  

People have done it with a safety pilot and had success every time that I know of.  You're obviously not using the ipad GPS, but either a stratus or another source that will run the AHRS.  I'd feel less than comfortable trying it, but I certainly would if I had to.  

 

[M20JFlyer]

Iam voting with Byron.

I got my push button wizard GTN750 and  damn glad I have my dependable (for  me anyway) King KX 165 with its Glide slope & talks to those things called VOR's & LOC's

I'm also voting think it was Bob on the one rugged handheld G696 and a multifunctional hand held radio.

Saved some $$ for my PLB on a lanyard around my neck in the event my plane wants a rest off field or gets hot and wants to swim

 

 

[bradp]

On 12/12/2017 at 10:08 PM, jetdriven said:

And iPad is not intendedfor, nor does have the proper lateral resolution to use for any type of an actual instrument approach.  Certainly not any vertical guidance.   You’d have to be several failure layers deep to be at that point and I don’t ever plan on being there. Worst case alternator failure and your 200 miles from an aisport above minimims. Turn everything off, gang bar the whole thing, and fly for 90 minutes by dead reckoning using your iPad to get near the airport you’re going to do an approach then turn it all back on and do the ILS,but I see people try to think that they can use an iPad to get down below the clouds and shoot a real approach and I wonder. It’s not suitable for that.  

I would not rely on an ipad as a backup either - but looks like it has been popularized

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33Z4h-v3MTw