Oxygen Refills- Robbed

[zehutiman]

On 7/7/2023 at 9:00 AM, Pinecone said:

The Imogen 5 is good for 2 people up to 18,000.

There is a good thread on BT in the Beech Singles section.

https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=215076&p=3200920&hilit=imogen#p3200920

Here is a site that will sell to you if you furnish a copy of your pilot certificate, no prescription needed.  Also $1000 off with free FedEx shipping.

https://mainclinicsupply.com/products/inogen-one-g5-2020-model-rated-1-in-portable-high-flow-oxygen-1-6-only-4-7-pounds-free-fedex-next-day-delivery-dont-miss-this-sale

 

When I look at an Imogen 5, I only see one nipple for an oxygen tube…where and how do you connect a second tube?

[Ragsf15e]

6 minutes ago, zehutiman said:

When I look at an Imogen 5, I only see one nipple for an oxygen tube…where and how do you connect a second tube?

You use a Y. It isn’t exactly designed for this, but people on beechtalk are using it and checking with a pulse oximeter.  It requires the highest setting to work for 2 adults.

[DonMuncy]

It is pretty obvious to me that there are two distinct camps on MS on this subject. Some think the only way to go is to adhere to "use only ABO", and others, who opine that it is foolish to spend extra $ for the same product from another source, primarily welding O2. 

It seems each side is fully aware of the contrary opinions, and neither side is likely to change their position.

[Pinecone]

13 hours ago, M20Doc said:

From just 3 Mooney maintenance manuals, Mil-O-27210 aviators breathing Oxygen.

 

Old info.  There WAS ABO at one time.  But the switch to all bulk deliveries to filling stations moving to liquid O2, there is no longer a distinction.

But if you want to ask for ABO and pay extra for exactly the same O2, from the same supply, through the same lines, you are free to do that.

[Pinecone]

9 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

It is pretty obvious to me that there are two distinct camps on MS on this subject. Some think the only way to go is to adhere to "use only ABO", and others, who opine that it is foolish to spend extra $ for the same product from another source, primarily welding O2. 

It seems each side is fully aware of the contrary opinions, and neither side is likely to change their position.

And this has never happened before?? 

[exM20K]

11 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

It is pretty obvious to me that there are two distinct camps on MS on this subject. Some think the only way to go is to adhere to "use only ABO", and others, who opine that it is foolish to spend extra $ for the same product from another source, primarily welding O2. 

It seems each side is fully aware of the contrary opinions, and neither side is likely to change their position.

There’s a third camp of at least one: the total cost of servicing the O2 semi annually doesn’t even register in the total cost of ownership, it can be done along with an oil change for convenience, and I’m too busy/lazy to mess around with a cascade tank setup.

-de

[Pinecone]

My last annual, O2 fill was included.

[kortopates]

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

My last annual, O2 fill was included.

No doubt with ABO,  !

[EricJ]

14 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

It seems each side is fully aware of the contrary opinions, and neither side is likely to change their position.

This is the way! 

[Andy95W]

[1980Mooney]

5 hours ago, kortopates said:

No doubt with ABO,  !

That’s probably what the log entry says, but……. 

[EricJ]

35 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

You should buy Mooney and rewrite the manuals and eliminate those obsolete specifications!

They also reference 80/87 and 100/130 fuel, and an awful lot of other stuff that doesn't exist any more, so we'll probably have to give them some room.   

[Pinecone]

2 hours ago, M20Doc said:

You should buy Mooney and rewrite the manuals and eliminate those obsolete specifications!

Really.  And also things like specifying 91/97 AVGAS and other things that have been superseded by time.

[Red Leader]

On 7/7/2023 at 8:15 AM, Pinecone said:

The concentrator does not delivery pure oxygen, only enriched air.

Also, compressors that can do 1500 - 2000 PSI with O2 (no oil, nothing combustible) are NOT cheap.

Are you sure about this? From the operator's manual I read, the compressor measures the oxygen and won't fill bottles unless the concentration is at or above 90%

[1980Mooney]

11 hours ago, Pinecone said:

My last annual, O2 fill was included.

Sounds like an opportunity for the shop to sell you more and increase the bill during your Annual. 

[Pinecone]

Normal gas supply O2 is around 98 - 99+% O2.

Concentrators deliver 90 - 95% O2.

So if you are filling a bottle and using this with a flow meter or O2D2, you are getting a lower O2 delivery (and thus a lower partial pressure in the lungs).

[Pinecone]

2 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

Sounds like an opportunity for the shop to sell you more and increase the bill during your Annual. 

It was not on the bill.

[N201MKTurbo]

On 7/7/2023 at 6:15 AM, Pinecone said:

The concentrator does not delivery pure oxygen, only enriched air.

Also, compressors that can do 1500 - 2000 PSI with O2 (no oil, nothing combustible) are NOT cheap.

There is an oxygen concentrator that has a compressor built In to fill portable bottles so the user can leave the house. These have been out for about 10 years. Considering all the owners of these things die off, sometimes you can find them on eBay for a reasonable price.

https://majorcpap.com/products/invacare-homefill-compressor-refurbished?variant=43449005211811&currency=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIu56cxZSIgAMV9yCtBh12TALPEAQYAiABEgLwT_D_BwE

[Pinecone]

Thanks.  So you could hook this up to your airplane and fill the tank between flights.  Or use it to fill one large bottle to fill the airplane.

The one caveat is that the one you linked to states it produces over 90%, which means it could be 91%. 

So you could be breathing 8% lower O2 as all the systems measure flow rate, not O2 delivered.  So make sure you cross check with a Pulse Oximeter to ensure proper delivery rate.

[Fly Boomer]

2 hours ago, Pinecone said:

So you could be breathing 8% lower O2 as all the systems measure flow rate, not O2 delivered.  So make sure you cross check with a Pulse Oximeter to ensure proper delivery rate.

Agree.  I don't really care about delivery rate -- I'm only interested in O2 Saturation.

[PeteMc]

On 7/10/2023 at 7:02 PM, DonMuncy said:

Some think the only way to go is to adhere to "use only ABO", and others, who opine that it is foolish to spend extra $ for the same product

Actually... I never said I didn't get ABO , it's just easier to get it at the FBO and I never had a place to keep an O2 bottle.  (That may change in the near future.)

My position on this is that there is technically is no longer a difference when it leaves the plant since everything is created the same and shipped as Liquid O2.  But I realize I was never clear that you have to know your Vendor/Source!  It is quite possible for a welding supplier to have crappy tanks that they really don't clean or check.  So you could be getting crappy O2, even though it started off all the same.

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by PeteMc

[N201MKTurbo]

I never swap tanks. I bought a cylinder, I get it hydro tested, I have them fill it to my specifications. The only thing the two suppliers say, is I have to wait till the next day to pick it up. Once I showed up in the morning and they were still running the manifold and filled it on the spot. Don't count on that.

[DonMuncy]

5 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I never swap tanks. I bought a cylinder, I get it hydro tested, I have them fill it to my specifications. The only thing the two suppliers say, is I have to wait till the next day to pick it up. Once I showed up in the morning and they were still running the manifold and filled it on the spot. Don't count on that.

Not a criticism, but why do you not swap tanks?

[A64Pilot]

1 hour ago, DonMuncy said:

Not a criticism, but why do you not swap tanks?

Monthly rental fee I bet.

I like to pay once, I hate the way software and other things are going, they are after monthly rentals because there is way more money in that.

I don’t exchange my propane tanks either until they go out of inspection, they don’t hydro small propane tanks, it’s just a visual. I know because my aluminum propane tanks on the boat were a couple hundred bucks ea so I had them re-inspected. There is a lot of profit in exchange propane tanks. 

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by A64Pilot

[N201MKTurbo]

2 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

Not a criticism, but why do you not swap tanks?

I know my tank is clean and has never had anything but clean oxygen in it. Probably not necessary, but I thought it was prudent.