Txbyker Posted August 10, 2017 Report Posted August 10, 2017 Several on this board have installed remote mount GTX 45R in their GX and other models and do not see a Bluetooth signal in the cabin. For some reason I am fortunate enough to have a signal, although weak. It usually takes quite a while to fill in metars and see weather on my IPAD or iPhone. I have been doing some research on the internet and have some questions for you but first I need to explain some findings. According to the GTX 45R install manual you should mount the remote GTX with the front "Garmin" logo pointing towards the cabin. In my plane and probably most Mooney's the equipment tray is perpendicular. See the picture. Some folks have been removing the O2 access door shown with the blue arrow. The green arrow shows the GTX 45R and the Garmin logo. In the install manual I found these two remarks. 3.12 Bluetooth Considerations (GTX 45R Only) For optimal connectivity with a GTX 45, the Bluetooth antenna must point towards the passenger area of the aircraft. This is identifiable by the Garmin logo sticker. Due to aircraft obstructions, Bluetooth performance may be limited. To obtain ideal Bluetooth performance, use a Flight Stream 110/210. NOTE The Bluetooth antenna in the GTX 45R is at the front of the unit and must point to the passenger area to provide the best Bluetooth connection. Bluetooth performance from a remote unit can be limited due to obstructions in the aircraft. In this situation, better performance can be obtained by using a Flight Stream 110/210. These notes would indicate that the Bluetooth signal is a directional one as opposed to one that spreads such as a phone. I have found lots of articles and YouTube videos of people who have focused the Bluetooth signal on their phones by using tin cans and improved the signal to hundreds of feet. My question is this...does anyone know if a Bluetooth signal can be redirected with some sort of a deflector shield that would try to redirect the signal towards the cabin as opposed to our N numbers? Russ Quote
carusoam Posted August 11, 2017 Report Posted August 11, 2017 Russ, you will find an interesting discussion on this before... The outcome was pretty interesting. The back wall of all the long Bodies may not all be made of the same material... Some are aluminum, others were a polymer material...? The aluminum ones are known to block the wifi signal pretty readily. Check wich material is on your back wall. Easiest to see from inside the battery compartment. While you are in there check What material the back-up vac pump is using for a tube... yellowed PVC, not so good... black rubber, better... Pp thoughts, -a- Quote
jetdriven Posted August 11, 2017 Report Posted August 11, 2017 I have a 345r mounted back there but it is oriented correctly. I get full Bluetooth strength and the aft baggage wall is aluminum. So it's possible. 1 Quote
Jeff_S Posted August 14, 2017 Report Posted August 14, 2017 I wasn't getting enough signal to get any data. I could see the GTX was trying to output but it would never sync to the iPad. We removed the O2 access door as a test and now it syncs immediately and the data comes through just fine. I debated with my MSC about how important that door is. He figured the only drawback might be a bit of extra noise, but the carpet panel is pretty sturdy and I haven't noticed any issues. I know another MSer fabricated a plastic door to replace the aluminum one. I may get around to that eventually. Quote
carusoam Posted August 14, 2017 Report Posted August 14, 2017 Just the little O2 access door on the side of the fuselage? Similar in size to the ground power door on the opposite side... I have done some iPad and iPhone wifi testing around the house... basic distance vs. strength. Thirty feet, unobstructed is far... Couldn't discern directional strength yet with my simple set-up... Hmmm, I didn't think to rotate the home wifi system..... Sounds like a combination of distance, obstruction, and direction could be of assistance... The faraday icepail concept is a strong inhibitor of RF signals... Back in the day, cellphones used an antenna mounted to the glass to extend the phone's range outside the car... Makes you wonder there is something similar for wifi and BT... Thinking outloud while answers are being formed... Best regards, -a- Quote
Jeff_S Posted August 14, 2017 Report Posted August 14, 2017 Hi Anthony. No, the door I removed is the one shown in Russ's photo, a rectangular door in the baggage compartment bulkhead that is designed to facilitate removal of an O2 bottle in the avionics bay. Doing so taught me also how to disconnect and reconnect the Hobbs meter which is screwed into the carpet panel. I did confirm that I got it wired back up correctly! 1 Quote
carusoam Posted August 14, 2017 Report Posted August 14, 2017 I see... A nice piece of ABS plastic sheet may be an alternative worth considering... ABS is a high impact resistant polymer that may substitute for the Al door that was there. See what your mechanic thinks about swapping in the substitute material... PP thoughts only, relying on a mechanic's advice to make this idea useful... Best regards, -a- Quote
tigers2007 Posted August 15, 2017 Report Posted August 15, 2017 Maybe a passive antenna on both sides of the bulkhead? Tried that with ambulance boxes to get UHF handhelds to work through the aluminum bodies - worked great. No electronics involved. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
carusoam Posted August 16, 2017 Report Posted August 16, 2017 Where is Bonnie, Brian's antenna expert...? Tiger's got an interesting idea if an antenna person with knowledge could lend a hand... @Piloto got any ideas regarding a passive antenna to transfer a Bluetooth signal across a bulkhead? Best regards, -a- Quote
Txbyker Posted August 16, 2017 Author Report Posted August 16, 2017 On 8/10/2017 at 6:42 PM, Txbyker said: Several on this board have installed remote mount GTX 45R in their GX and other models and do not see a Bluetooth signal in the cabin. For some reason I am fortunate enough to have a signal, although weak. It usually takes quite a while to fill in metars and see weather on my IPAD or iPhone. I have been doing some research on the internet and have some questions for you but first I need to explain some findings. According to the GTX 45R install manual you should mount the remote GTX with the front "Garmin" logo pointing towards the cabin. In my plane and probably most Mooney's the equipment tray is perpendicular. See the picture. Some folks have been removing the O2 access door shown with the blue arrow. The green arrow shows the GTX 45R and the Garmin logo. In the install manual I found these two remarks. 3.12 Bluetooth Considerations (GTX 45R Only) For optimal connectivity with a GTX 45, the Bluetooth antenna must point towards the passenger area of the aircraft. This is identifiable by the Garmin logo sticker. Due to aircraft obstructions, Bluetooth performance may be limited. To obtain ideal Bluetooth performance, use a Flight Stream 110/210. NOTE The Bluetooth antenna in the GTX 45R is at the front of the unit and must point to the passenger area to provide the best Bluetooth connection. Bluetooth performance from a remote unit can be limited due to obstructions in the aircraft. In this situation, better performance can be obtained by using a Flight Stream 110/210. These notes would indicate that the Bluetooth signal is a directional one as opposed to one that spreads such as a phone. I have found lots of articles and YouTube videos of people who have focused the Bluetooth signal on their phones by using tin cans and improved the signal to hundreds of feet. My question is this...does anyone know if a Bluetooth signal can be redirected with some sort of a deflector shield that would try to redirect the signal towards the cabin as opposed to our N numbers? Russ Don't laugh but I created a shield out of aluminum and taped with foil tape. I fastened it to the GTX mounting screws. I am trying to see if it will deflect the bluetooth towards the cabin. I can tell you it did not hurt anything and I think it did make the signal stronger. I get metars filling in information faster and radar updates faster now. Russ Quote
Andy95W Posted August 16, 2017 Report Posted August 16, 2017 Like we used to say in the Army- if it's stupid, but it works, then it's not stupid. 1 Quote
jclemens Posted August 16, 2017 Report Posted August 16, 2017 We have replaced several of the O2 bottle access doors that were made of Aluminum with one made of plastic. Problem solved. Quote
carusoam Posted August 17, 2017 Report Posted August 17, 2017 JC, can you make a copy if somebody else wanted your engineered solution? Just wondering , since I don't have any Bluetooth boxes back there yet... Best regards, -a- Quote
Jeff_S Posted August 18, 2017 Report Posted August 18, 2017 JC, I'd be interested in your plastic door if you can fabricate one for my O3. Right now I have the door out and Bluetooth is working fine. I'll be coming to our place on Amelia for the first two weeks in September so I could pop down and have you put that door in for me. Send me a PM with your thoughts and pricing. Thx! Quote
carusoam Posted August 28, 2017 Report Posted August 28, 2017 @jclemens seeing if JC is hearing this... ^^^^ -a- Quote
jclemens Posted August 28, 2017 Report Posted August 28, 2017 They are just hand fabricated flat pieces of plastic cut to match the original and drilled to take the original fasteners. I don't have any kind of drawings or anything like that, we just copied the existing panel in plastic. Send me yours and I will make you one and send it back with your original, and you can screw it on. 1 Quote
Jeff_S Posted August 28, 2017 Report Posted August 28, 2017 @jclemensThanks JC. I would presume the doors are all the same, but rather than send you mine I'll just contact you when I get down to Amelia next week and fly down there so we can chat. Quote
Txbyker Posted September 12, 2017 Author Report Posted September 12, 2017 Ok Jeff and Buddy I am a believer. I bought a sheet of Lexan from Lowes and used the door to trace and copy. Very strong signal now. Probably the biggest issue with the GTX in the long body is that it is mounted perpendicular to the cockpit. (sorry I do not know how to upload portait) Russ 1 Quote
carusoam Posted September 13, 2017 Report Posted September 13, 2017 Lexan = polycarbonate... Good for impact strength too... Polycast = acrylic... not so good, no impact resistance... Nice update on the BT issue. Best regards, -a- Quote
Jeff_S Posted September 15, 2017 Report Posted September 15, 2017 As noted in an earlier post, removing the 02 access door definitely improves Bluetooth reception for the remote-mounted GTX-345. It doesn't solve all the problems, though! I found out through experience that when you load up the baggage area and add a person to the right-side passenger seat, that attenuates the Bluetooth signal quite a bit and it becomes spotty again. We took my mother-in-law down to Florida for a week's sojourn and the Connext really had trouble syncing up with the iPad. Back to the Stratus 2 for iPad coverage...always good to have backups for your backups! Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.