Brandontwalker Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 My M20J is down for annual and is in need of a new alternator belt. How much time should I budget for the removal and reinstallation of the prop? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6758N Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 2 hours should be plenty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 Just now, N6758N said: 2 hours should be plenty About half of that is safety wire! Be sure to use 0.041 or whatever is spec'd not the standard 0.032 used on most applications. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orionflt Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 replace the o ring Brian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandontwalker Posted June 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 I am hopeful my mechanic knows the specs for the safety wire. The prop is getting a fresh reseal while it is off. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 44 minutes ago, N6758N said: 2 hours should be plenty But 3 would not be unreasonable. Part of it is a 2-person job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6758N Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 Just now, Andy95W said: But 3 would not be unreasonable. Part of it is a 2-person job. No, but it is doable by yourself, at least with a two blade. Not advisable, but doable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 30 minutes ago, Brandontwalker said: I am hopeful my mechanic knows the specs for the safety wire. The prop is getting a fresh reseal while it is off. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I would do the passive aggressive approach and just ask him if the prop nuts get .042 wire. Voice of experience, We redid mine after a shop in MA that should have known better used .031. (.042 is much meaner to work with.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 I found Hemostats to be very handy with the safety wire part. Some good snap on needle nose also. I got a "that could work, but we don't want to have another shop know that is our work" so I got to safety tie it twice. practice makes perfect. If you get a number off the belt, your local National Airplane Parts Association will have a similar replacement belt. Single person removal is not too bad. 2 person to start it on is a good idea. About 15 minutes to remove. 2 hours should work. depending on how many times you get to safety wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6758N Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 11 hours ago, Bob_Belville said: I would do the passive aggressive approach and just ask him if the prop nuts get .042 wire. Voice of experience, We redid mine after a shop in MA that should have known better used .031. (.042 is much meaner to work with.) Not to get too technical Bob, but its actually .032 and .041, respectively. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 Just now, N6758N said: Not to get too technical Bob, but its actually .032 and .041, respectively. Yep, I had it right on an earlier post. Sure wish I'd taken typing instead of Latin in HS. Who knew in the '50s that shortly we'd be living on computers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 Can be done solo, but better to have a second if it's your first time. A hardy 5 gallon bucket will be sturdy enough to support the prop while it drains. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhop Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 Was charged four hours for removal and installation during my recent propeller overhaul... fortunately I was friends with the A&P that did the work, so I had it done at a reduced rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 I would say you did not get a reduced rate, he reduced the dollar amount, but upped the time to do the job. I think it took me an hour to safety tie the prop twice. Clearly not a job to be rushed since the prop holds the plane in the air, but it is 6 bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 4 hours ago, Yetti said: I would say you did not get a reduced rate, he reduced the dollar amount, but upped the time to do the job. I think it took me an hour to safety tie the prop twice. Clearly not a job to be rushed since the prop holds the plane in the air, but it is 6 bolts. 6 relatively long, fine thread bolts that get turned 2-3 complete turns at time...with an open ended wrench, gradually working around the prop. I've never counted how many times you you need to touch each bolt before it's ready to be torqued, but it's significant. I could do the whole job (spinner off, prop off, prop on, spinner on) in about two hours (I've done many on several different aircraft), but that does not mean the two hours is the norm. I am glad your mx had you redo it, I have seen some awful safety wire jobs (some so bad they are tensioned counter clockwise), most done by owners which is legal...provided they use acceptable methods, techniques and practices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 After the nuts were broke loose, I supported the prop with my body and then could turn the nuts by hand which greatly increased the speed. It was also very clean from the year prior rebuild. I could see where a gummy prop and bolts could slow things up. The other mechanic said the wire job was fine. But hey I am good with going the extra mile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolter Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 19 hours ago, Yetti said: I found Hemostats to be very handy with the safety wire part. Some good snap on needle nose also. I got a "that could work, but we don't want to have another shop know that is our work" so I got to safety tie it twice. practice makes perfect. If you get a number off the belt, your local National Airplane Parts Association will have a similar replacement belt. Single person removal is not too bad. 2 person to start it on is a good idea. About 15 minutes to remove. 2 hours should work. depending on how many times you get to safety wire. Just a note on getting the part from them, be sure to specify they give you the same brand (Gates?) that is the aircraft part. Often the counter guy cross-checks and gives you whatever they have that is the same fit. If it is not the same one exactly, it is not the same part anymore and obviously an automotive part upon an inspection. Just my $.02 worth of observation. -dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steingar Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 This topic is just a tad bit ironic. We trust our very lives to our mechanics, but we don't trust them not to rip us off? And if I thought that my mechanic wasn't up to speed on my aircraft enough to complete the repair, I'd find a new mechanic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, steingar said: This topic is just a tad bit ironic. We trust our very lives to our mechanics, but we don't trust them not to rip us off? And if I thought that my mechanic wasn't up to speed on my aircraft enough to complete the repair, I'd find a new mechanic. I trust my life to my aircraft and the generally robust designs of all GA aircraft. I trust most mechanics to act in our mutual best interests. I want them to profit from their knowledge and labor. However, I have known folks in all walks of life that are happy to profit from the ignorance of their clients and customers. We trust doctors with our health, still there's plenty of bad medicine out there. At the end of the day, you and you alone are responsible for keeping yourself alive. No guarantees, just risk mitigation. Edited June 10, 2017 by Shadrach 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 On June 8, 2017 at 10:04 PM, N6758N said: Not to get too technical Bob, but its actually .032 and .041, respectively. To be correct, it's MS20995C041 for propellers. C being for 304 stainless steel. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandontwalker Posted June 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 This topic is just a tad bit ironic. We trust our very lives to our mechanics, but we don't trust them not to rip us off? And if I thought that my mechanic wasn't up to speed on my aircraft enough to complete the repair, I'd find a new mechanic. Your attempt to delve into the thoughts underlying the topic is off base. Simple fact is, I started a new company two months ago and the budget is tight. The thread was started so I can determine what this ever increasing annual is going to cost and budget for the same. Stir up drama in another post. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steingar Posted June 10, 2017 Report Share Posted June 10, 2017 55 minutes ago, Brandontwalker said: Your attempt to delve into the thoughts underlying the topic is off base. Simple fact is, I started a new company two months ago and the budget is tight. The thread was started so I can determine what this ever increasing annual is going to cost and budget for the same. Stir up drama in another post. I'm sorry to cause offense, but I have little doubt that if I asked my mechanic what it cost to remove the prop from my aircraft I'd get a straight answer. If all you're seeking is budgetary information that might've been the better course, since the mechanic is the one doing the work. I've long given up on asking the cost of an annual, though the mechanic doing it should be able to tell you the cost of the inspection itself. Repairs are a different matter. Our machines are complex, fragile, and old. I doubt any mechanic will truly know what they're going to see until they get into the aircraft. My decades of airplane ownership have taught me one thing. Budgeting for an aircraft is close to folly. You jut never know when some sort of complex or expensive issue will raise its head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 11, 2017 Report Share Posted June 11, 2017 The propeller on a J model with its deep spinner bulkhead make both torquing the bolts and safety wiring them more challenging than some other installations. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB65E Posted June 11, 2017 Report Share Posted June 11, 2017 Well nobody has said it yet... I don't know a single Hartzell or MT that is still safety wired with .041. .032 is approved by Hartzell. I became really good at installing front crank seals a few years ago. For the prop alone, I'd say start to finish from the time the plane is in the hangar to the time it can fly again would be slightly over 2 hrs. By myself but not messing around, and having had it off about 3-4 times prior. Maybe that 4hr guy used .041. Also, attached are 2 PNs not normally seen of the washer and screw for the spinner install. Kinda neat. -Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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