Mooney IFR Students' Thread

[carusoam]

Something I found while training...

http://feeds.feedburner.com/UniversityOfNorthDakotaAerocast

You might it under podasts in Itunes....  The UND Aerocast

you don't even need an Ipad for this.... itunes works for on old windows machines too.....

It has a mix of PPL, IFR and Comm all mixed in.  You can easily identify what it is by its title.  Somebody at the school must have been working on a degree in videography and communication.

Let me know what you think....

Best regards,

-a-

[HopePilot]

To those of you who are working on your IFR, I just really want to encourage you and say keep at it! Mooneys are the perfect IFR platform and you will only love your plane more.  I use IFR all the time and not just for instrument weather.  It comes in handy in complex airspace and those all too common VIP TFRs we get here in L.A.  I've started my commercial, and I really believe the important thing is that we all keep training; forever.  We should try to have a reputation for being better trained than the "Brand C" guys.  People will be more likely to want to fly Mooneys, if they feel that it's the plane of "real" pilots.

[flyboy0681]

I'm joining the fray too and am taking the plunge. Last October I bought into an M20J and realized that in order to use it for its full potential ($300 hamburgers), I'll need the IFR ticket, this after 30 years of flying.

Luckily my partner in the plane is a CFII and he'll be taking me through my training. He's a great guy, very easy to get along with and is a good instructor (he did my required insurance checkout in the plane).

I purchased the online version of the King IFR training and am having a blast (if Martha were only 30 years younger). No DVD's to worry about, just sign on from any browser worldwide and there is Martha in glorious Technicolor. I did extensive research before plopping down the money and the feeling out there was that King was superior to Sporty's.

I will be doing the entire IR training in the plane, no simulator for me.

My plane is heading into the avionics shop in two weeks for installation of a 430W with GPSS. I also acquired a used MX-20 that will be installed at the same time, so I'm hoping that all of this modern equipment will make the going easier, although I realize that the VOR (and ADF?) is still a critical piece of equipment.

 

[FlyFstr]

 

Re: "I will be doing the entire IR training in the plane, no simulator for me."

My suggestion - You should spend some time in the sim. In my experience, I found this to be the best way to learn IFR different approaches, arrivals, holds etc. In fact my progress improved substantially

You can also stop anytime and discuss things with your CFI.  Lastly, no need to worry about other traffic, which can cause distractions in the real world.

 

[flyboy0681]

Quote: FlyFstr

 

Re: "I will be doing the entire IR training in the plane, no simulator for me."

My suggestion - You should spend some time in the sim. In my experience, I found this to be the best way to learn IFR different approaches, arrivals, holds etc. In fact my progress improved substantially

You can also stop anytime and discuss things with your CFI.  Lastly, no need to worry about other traffic, which can cause distractions in the real world.

 

[fantom]

Try http://www.americanflyers.net/ very near you, actually right on your field. I bet you could work something out with them, including one of their top notch people to work with you during simulator time. $ and time well spent, IMHO, and a good supplement to flying with your CFII partner.

[flyboy0681]

Quote: fantom

Try http://www.americanflyers.net/ very near you, actually right on your field. I bet you could work something out with them, including one of their top notch people to work with you during simulator time. $ and time well spent, IMHO, and a good supplement to flying with your CFII partner.

[Magnum]

Quote: flyboy0681

Actually, what I said didn't come out right. I didn't mean that I was closed to simulators, it's just that there aren't any located near me and I'm not sure if there was a flight school convenient to me that they would rent it to people off the street who are not enrolled in their school or using their instructors.

[74657]

I just finished Day 3 with my instructor.  I am currently with PIC and couldn't be happier.  The course sylabus is straighforward and my instructor is great.  Here is a synopsis of what we have done so far:

Day 1 -

Discussed the Control / Power method of aircraft control in all phases of flight.  Takeoff, climb, cruise, descent, Precision approach, non precision approach.  Went on the "sim" to learn basic concepts of IFR attitude flying, flew climbs/descents, turning versions of each.  Went to the airport and did 2 hours in the air of the same stuff.  Nailed the "power settings" for each phase of flight.

Day 2 -

Discussed weather, briefings, IFR Charts.  Took advantage of good weather and went to the airport.  Confirmed ability to fly headings in climbs/descents throughout all phases of flight.  Ended the day by shooting a GPS low approach / missed and ended with an ILS approach.

Day 3 -

3.5 hours of ground school (1 hour sim) on VOR navigation and procedure turns.  Went to the airport and spent 3 hours flying 7 different approaches at 4 airports.  Saw the difference between tracking a VOR approach into BEH on runway 27 then using the ILS - BIG Difference.  Flew the approaches using the autopilot and by hand.  On the last approach my instructor acted as the local approach controller and gave me vectors to the inbound course.

We ran into some 55kt tailwinds/headwinds at 3K ft and slight chop.  I started sweating and feeling like heck when I was thumbing through my approach plates, loading the approaches on the GPS and hand flying the plane from airport to airport.  My stomach settled after the first hour.

Tomorrow (Day 4) will be my last day for a week and a half.  I plan to go up a few times to stay fresh.  So far so good.  I was hesitant at first by doing a 10 day course but feel that I made a wise decision by going this route.  My instructor is great.

 

[FlyFstr]

Flyboy0681 - I got my Instrument and ME at American Flyers at KPMP several years ago and just returned for an IPC a month ago. I love thier sims there. I only found one of the instructors still there (Paul- he's very good). 

Thier approach (no pun intended) is IMO the best (or at least one of the best) around.

Prior to American Flyers I had left another local school that was well known but thier teaching methods were not as effective.

 

[HopePilot]

Flew to San Diego today for the 100 Years of Naval Aviation.  Flying through Los Angeles and San Diego airspace can be interesting.  Even though I did the flight VFR, my IFR training came in handy as the controllers often assign IFR-like instructions.  As I was given directions to turn to exact headings and altitudes, navigational fixes, etc., to avoid traffic, I was glad that IFR training had put me ahead of the plane enough to oblige the controllers while traveling in and out of Class Bravo airspace.  Keep at it everyone!

[fantom]

Quote: flyboy0681

[FlyingAggie]

Hold Everyting!  Last night was my first lesson in a week due to work and bad weather.  I did 2.7 hrs in the sim and about 1 hr of ground school.  We worked on holding patterns and holding pattern entries.  The neat thing about using the sim is the instructor is able to warp space and time.  She would move the airplane to various locations and distances from the fix and I had decreasing amounts of time to figure out the hold and entry.  My CFII taught me a neat trick of splitting the the difference  between the needle deflection and the desired course with the heading on the HSI to smoothly follow the localizer or VOR needle in.

Precision with Non-precision approaches!  After taking a break for dinner, I was back in the sim for nonprecision approaches.  I flew VOR and Localizer approaches at the airports around CO and most of the time went missed and entered the holding pattern.  One goal is to become familar with all the local approaches that I may be flying during the checkride.  However,  my instructor used the sim to "transport" me and my simulated 231 to KBMI to fly the backcourse localizer there, since we don't have any in the area.  Interesting mind game, I learned during a BC LOC approach is to think of the "airplane becoming the needle."

That is another advantage of the sim, being able to fly interesting approaches in any part of the country, at any time of day or season of year and in any type of wx condition.  One disadvantage of the sim that I discovered during flying the KBJC 29R Loc approach with a Circle to Land to 11L.  The minimums for this approach are 510' AGL.  Even though the sim has five screens and covers about 180 deg field of view,  I found it very difficult to keep the runway insight.  I found it disconcerting to fly the traffic pattern that low.  I lost sight of the runway and had to go missed.  Not sure I would want to do that for real on a dark night with 600' ceilings! 

My greatest frustration is busting altitudes in the sim.  The sim is much harder to fly than the real airplane and it is so easy to knudge the yoke just a little while messing with the radio or something else, resulting in a 500-1000 fpm descent  and busting  through a limit.    Anyone else having that problem and what have you learned to keep from doing it? 

My next lesson is scheduled for Monday afternoon, where I will trying doing the above in my Mooney.

 

[Magnum]

Quote: FlyingAggie

My greatest frustration is busting altitudes in the sim.  The sim is much harder to fly than the real airplane and it is so easy to knudge the yoke just a little while messing with the radio or something else, resulting in a 500-1000 fpm descent  and busting  through a limit.    Anyone else having that problem and what have you learned to keep from doing it? 

[Jeff_S]

Quote: FlyingAggie

My greatest frustration is busting altitudes in the sim.  The sim is much harder to fly than the real airplane and it is so easy to knudge the yoke just a little while messing with the radio or something else, resulting in a 500-1000 fpm descent  and busting  through a limit.    Anyone else having that problem and what have you learned to keep from doing it? 

[Ned Gravel]

Quote: FlyFstr

 

Re: "I will be doing the entire IR training in the plane, no simulator for me."

My suggestion - You should spend some time in the sim. In my experience, I found this to be the best way to learn IFR different approaches, arrivals, holds etc. In fact my progress improved substantially

You can also stop anytime and discuss things with your CFI.  Lastly, no need to worry about other traffic, which can cause distractions in the real world.

 

[HopePilot]

I did twenty hours in a FRASCA simulator, before starting in the plane, and found it way more challenging.  The first approach I did in a real plane was perfect with zero dots of deflection.  I think that must have been from the simulator which teaches you not to over control.  The simulator definitely has a learning curve.

With the sim time we had remaining, we did every possible instrument failure and even simulated the JFK JR. accident.  Failures in a sim are more realistic because you can't see your instructor covering a gauge or pulling a CB.

[flyboy0681]

Interesting feedback from everyone. They all have a common thread, how "unreal" the actual feel of the simulator is yet it's good for instrument basics.

Does anybody have experience in a Redbird sim?

[FlyingAggie]

I flew one at OSH this summer and thought it was pretty neat.   I talked to Red Bird and found a FBO at Boulder (BDU) has one.  I was interested until I found out they only had two configuration options: Cessna C172/G1000 or C172/steam gauge.   They charge $60/hrs and will only allow their instructors to instruct in it.

I pay $33/hr for the non-motion sim that can be configured as either a M20J or M20K and can use my instructor.  If I didn't have my own airplane and was renting a C172 for training, I think the FMX or MX would make a lot of sense.  My primary interest in the sim is to do the procedures work, which the ones that don't move are fine.

EDIT:  Here are some pictures of the type of flight simulators in which I am doing my some of my training.

http://www.mooneyspace.com/index.cfm?action=gallery&userGallery=18&currentAlbum=502

[Jerry 5TJ]

Written Exam Prep:

I took an instrument ground school class at the local community college, one night per week for a semester.  Then I took a weekend "cram course" that ended in taking the written exam on Sunday afternoon.   The cram session alone would not have been a good way to prepare but it was a great review, and everything was fresh when I took the test.   The combo of the night class and the weekend refresher worked very well to really learn the IFR material.  

 

 

[mooniac58]

I am hoping to setup a Redbird FMX here in Santa Fe (KSAF).  I will likely charge around $65/hr and while I will allow any instructor to rent it - they will need to be trained on how to use the sim and get a key for the building and access to the scheduling website.

I am hoping to make it out to Austin, TX to test drive the Redbirds in March - once my Mooney is ready to fly again!

The really major value to any sim is that you can fly approaches much more realisitically.  No foggles, you are IN the clouds and when you break out it will likely be low visibility and raining and turbulent and you get a much more realistic feel for what a true approach to low ceilings will belike (visually anyways).

Plus in a sim, you can shoot 6 approaches in 60-90 minutes.  Try doing that in a real aircraft with ATC delays and having to fly all the way back to the IAF to start over!  For this reason, my main marketing target is going to be IFR rated pilots wanting to keep current and IFR students second.  I see another smaller market for VFR students who have instructors that really want to do things like fail an engine, or accidental flight into IMC, etc.

I plan on offering big discounts to Mooney drivers of course, so any of you Mooniacs passing through New Mexico can pass by and polish up on your skills!

[mooniac58]

Quote: FlyingAggie

My greatest frustration is busting altitudes in the sim.  The sim is much harder to fly than the real airplane and it is so easy to knudge the yoke just a little while messing with the radio or something else, resulting in a 500-1000 fpm descent  and busting  through a limit.    Anyone else having that problem and what have you learned to keep from doing it? 

This is very tough with sims.  However, once you master this (hint: it is all about scanning) it will make you a way better pilot.  Remember that once you are in the clouds, fog or whatever, you need to throw your human sensory systems out the window - they will only get you dead.  The only thing you can trust is your gauges.  Eventually, this is all you will look at VFR or IFR.

My CFII trained me to never take my eyes of the AI for more than 3 seconds...it was "home base".  If you need to review an approach plate you look at each blocked section in 3 second chunks then back to home base.  You need to set something in the GPS, you dial in one or two numbers and get back to home page, rinse and repeat until your tasks are done.  It is hard to get the airplane in too much trouble in 3 seconds.

Once you have an autopilot I think you can relax this a bit (I would not know from experience and I am currently getting my very first AP installed in my Mooney!)

It sounds like you are kicking ass on your IR training so keep it up!  It was the greatest thing I ever did as a pilot and while I fly very little IFR the difference it made it my awareness in the cockpit in my aircrafts operation in the system was monumental.  It really completes the whole circle of being a pilot once you know how all aircraft in the system are working both VFR and IFR.  I have had passengers who have flown with me periodically over the years comment on how much more calm, relaxed and in control I was after my rating (and they did not know I had any more training, they just commented after the flight).

[Bob]

Well guys, you are all advancing at a fantastic pace with your instrument training.  Keep up the good work!

I was working in Phoenix for a few months and managed to get in only about 10 hrs of hood time in.  On the way home, to Chicago, I was stopped due to a thin wall of IMC.  I was forced to leave the Mooney in Denver and fly commercial home.  No I did not enjoy my first full body scan!  Well my return flight to get the plane is still a week away.  So I decided to do some sim time this week.  I am scheduled for a couple hours three days this week.  Then I go get Papa Zulu and hope to have a great basis to really fine tune everything in the plane and get my IFR training done.

Alan, thanks for keeping an eye on Papa Zulu!

 

[flight2000]

Quote: mooniac58

My CFII trained me to never take my eyes of the AI for more than 3 seconds...it was "home base".  If you need to review an approach plate you look at each blocked section in 3 second chunks then back to home base.  You need to set something in the GPS, you dial in one or two numbers and get back to home page, rinse and repeat until your tasks are done.  It is hard to get the airplane in too much trouble in 3 seconds.

Once you have an autopilot I think you can relax this a bit (I would not know from experience and I am currently getting my very first AP installed in my Mooney!)

[74657]

My instructor tells me that 70% of my scan should be around the AI.  Set the pitch with the AI  and crosscheck VSI and altimeter.  Set the bank with the AI - crosscheck with the turn coordinator, HSI, VSI and altimeter.  I do agree that it is not needed in case of a vacuum failure.  My instructor blanks out my AI and HSI when under partial panel (I tell him that my HSI is electric and wouldn't fail with vac. failure but he didn't pull the cover off.....) and I can still fly the approaches.  I have not done a hold partial panel but I assume that if you have a vacuum failure ATC would not throw you in a hold...