Dear Supreme Leader Mooniac58

[Tommy]

Care to explain, at your best convenience, what do you mean by "Enough has been said already" as a reason for shutting down (or should I say, re-accommodate) discussions? Last time I checked, it was lively and entertaining with new facts and information presented every hour!

Sure, at times, people become a little bit, err.. shall we say, belligerent (guilty!) and disruptive (to the person who mentioned the police brutality and the "F(ascist)" word, you really ruined it for every one! ) but I - and perhaps many others too - learnt much more about aviation during this discussion than talks on someone's prostate, dental carries, back injuries, and the size of their girl friend (I am sure those are very important to their OPs and no offence intended *winks at Marauder*) and they occasionally do get nasty and personal but I don't see them getting closed. Just before, thirst for bloodshed, you yourself made the suggestion of making a "ranting" forum for members to have a go at each other on non-aviation-related issues. 

Is there a rule to all these? Or are we at the mercy of your whimsical and fickle disposition, Supreme Leader? 

ps. one of the reasons that I was upset about locking the discussion is that I didn't get a chance to poke fun, sorry, I mean, to engage in meaningful and respectful discourse with other esteemed members of this forum because I was stuck in the operating theatre all night!

________________

Now here is a thought experiment I came up for Peter, Mike, Paul, Greg, Nobody, Cnoe, Bob (the list is getting longer and longer) as I watched the ventilator pumping up and down in a rhythmical fashion. Then I asked the unimaginable question: what if I just stop the operation, wake the patient up, pull the tube, and tell her that we need to re-accommodate her?? Hmmm....

Say you are up for a high-risk awake craniotomy -Yes you are fully awake, alert, oriented - for a malignant brain tumour in a Private Hospital. You paid the big bucks, you shaved your hair, you fasted for 6 hours, and you probably kissed good bye to your beautiful wife / girl friends this morning. They cracked open your skull and started the delicate dissection of the tumour whist you boasting about your Mooney to the could-not-give-a-shit anesthesiologist who is mad at watching his favourite airline's share plummeting. 

Then there was an old theatre nurse collapsed in the corridor. A quick CT scan showed a ruptured AAA and will need an urgent laparotomy. But all theatres were busy with patients on the table. So the hospital decided to use a computer to randomly pick which theatre's to vacate. You know where this is going, right? Long story short, you got picked, and despite your verbal dissent about the $800 hospital cafeteria voucher, you were dragged out of the theatre by LAPD with half of the brain hanging out. Now here comes the multiple choice:

A. the hospital is in the right because you are on the private property using private equipment operated by hospital employees. You also signed a contract to say that the hospital can refuse surgery (pre-anesthesia given) if you are uncooperative, belligerent, litigious, or there is an over-booking situation. And you are being a dick head (literally in this case). 

B. the hospital is in the wrong because you entered a contract, you did all the right thing, you paid upfront, and your operation had already started. And this poor nurse's operation - though important to the hospital - is not an elective procedure so it's not an overbooking situation. 

Tough choice, eh?

 

ps. this post did not mention the "U" word so I don't think it will get locked up

 

 

 

 

[Browncbr1]

2017 Little Timmy trophy winner!

[Tommy]

1 minute ago, Browncbr1 said:

2017 Little Timmy trophy winner!

Correction, Little Tommy. Thanks!

[Tommy]

I am leaving this discussion with a quote I heard (which probably doesn't apply to this incident but we will have to wait to find out what the court has to say)

"Doing things right (legally) doesn't always mean doing the right thing."

It's been fun! 

 

[DonMuncy]

We just had a similar question over on the bugs forum. I don't like to get involved in contentious debates, as I feel that the best way to stop an unpleasant discussion is to ignore it.

But let me take a shot at this, without taking sides or expressing an opinion as to whether anyone is right or wrong. On any forum, group or discussion site, it seems to me there is the real possibility that feelings can run so hot that the whole system could be put in jeopardy, as it could be so distasteful to a large enough percentage of participants, they would simply drop out. If that happened we could all lose the value of each other's advice and discussion. Or perhaps a topic has been discussed to such an extent that no further discussion seems to be helpful.

Thus, it seems to me that someone needs to make a decision when any topic has reached the point that it should be abandoned. I assume the "administrator" has the job (authority?) to do that. I presume it would be too unwieldy to put such decision making position on a board or tribunal. So it seems that the administrator just makes the decision and we live with that decision. I guess if we really felt he was being too (pick your own term), we would have the choice of starting our own site and administrate it ourselves.  

[MyNameIsNobody]

17 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

We just had a similar question over on the bugs forum. I don't like to get involved in contentious debates, as I feel that the best way to stop an unpleasant discussion is to ignore it.

But let me take a shot at this, without taking sides or expressing an opinion as to whether anyone is right or wrong. On any forum, group or discussion site, it seems to me there is the real possibility that feelings can run so hot that the whole system could be put in jeopardy, as it could be so distasteful to a large enough percentage of participants, they would simply drop out. If that happened we could all lose the value of each other's advice and discussion. Or perhaps a topic has been discussed to such an extent that no further discussion seems to be helpful.

Thus, it seems to me that someone needs to make a decision when any topic has reached the point that it should be abandoned. I assume the "administrator" has the job (authority?) to do that. I presume it would be too unwieldy to put such decision making position on a board or tribunal. So it seems that the administrator just makes the decision and we live with that decision. I guess if we really felt he was being too (pick your own term), we would have the choice of starting our own site and administrate it ourselves.  

I married "you" Don.  My wife would choose also to ignore an unpleasant discussion.  That is our key to a long marriage.  I enjoyed that thread and it is VERY topical and has ramifications for commercial air travel that will likely reverberate within Hubs/Courtrooms and discussion for a long time.

I say it over and over again No one makes others read what they choose to not read.  They are the most possible threads because they spark debate and opinion allowing minds to perhaps be changed.  I love to debate and think discourse out in the open is a good thing.  EVEN when it is ugly.  I laugh a lot more than not when I read and re-read locked threads.

I think you are being a little dramatic with the idea that MooneySpace would/could be brought down by a thread.  Just disengage.  We are not talking life and death here...except in the operating scenario.  Wasn't it a flight from Chicago to Louisville?  Wow that escalated into something much more.  Understanding who was right, who was wrong.  Who was legally right.  Who was morally right.  Those questions I find interesting and worthy of discussion.  Even if Tommy sounds like my mommy

 

 

[Tommy]

39 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

But let me take a shot at this, without taking sides or expressing an opinion as to whether anyone is right or wrong. On any forum, group or discussion site, it seems to me there is the real possibility that feelings can run so hot that the whole system could be put in jeopardy, as it could be so distasteful to a large enough percentage of participants, they would simply drop out. If that happened we could all lose the value of each other's advice and discussion. Or perhaps a topic has been discussed to such an extent that no further discussion seems to be helpful.

How is it that our discussion on aviation law be so distasteful to a LARGE enough of members? Perhaps the admin can present the numbers of complaints he received and from whom? By the way, this WAS the NOT the reason given by the admin. Hence, I am asking for clarification from the admin. 

Why this topic, with new facts and new information (laws, rules, regulations) are constantly updated and presented, can be categorized as an exhaustive discussion?

I simply don't think it is justifiable to lock the discussion up when I - and perhaps many others - am being bombarded with interesting facts and information (thanks JKHirsch) RELATED to aviation particularly if no more than handful of people (numbers remain a mystery) complained.

And all the more ridiculous when you consider posts on prostate, bad teeth, and size of someone's girl friends were allowed? So we can be misogynistic sexists but not pilots / flyers with sound knowledge in aviation laws? 

 

[Tommy]

45 minutes ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

Even if Tommy sounds like my mommy

 

 

Good boy! Now don't let any one tell you that you are a Nobody! 

Go get'em boy! That's my boy!  

[DonMuncy]

 

13 minutes ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

I married "you" Don.  My wife would choose also to ignore an unpleasant discussion.  That is our key to a long marriage.  I enjoyed that thread and it is VERY topical and has ramifications for commercial air travel that will likely reverberate within Hubs/Courtrooms and discussion for a long time.

I say it over and over again No one makes others read what they choose to not read.  They are the most possible threads because they spark debate and opinion allowing minds to perhaps be changed.  I love to debate and think discourse out in the open is a good thing.  EVEN when it is ugly.  I laugh a lot more than not when I read and re-read locked threads.

I think you are being a little dramatic with the idea that MooneySpace would/could be brought down by a thread.  Just disengage.  We are not talking life and death here...except in the operating scenario.  Wasn't it a flight from Chicago to Louisville?  Wow that escalated into something much more.  Understanding who was right, who was wrong.  Who was legally right.  Who was morally right.  Those questions I find interesting and worthy of discussion.  Even if Tommy sounds like my mommy

 

 

In the same vein in which I wrote the previous post, I will respond, once.

I, too, think that the original incident gave rise to worthwhile discussion for a period of time. But like some others, it went downhill into name calling and what I considered to be outright rudeness.

I appreciate your idea that we can choose what we want to read, but on MS, and perhaps others, there appears to be a lot of thread drift, and I often have to read a lot ofsome posts before I figure out I really am not interested.  Maybe this is just me.

Maybe I am being dramatic, but I have read at least one person's post on MS that "he was leaving and wouldn't be back". I hate to lose helpful folks here, because of bad feelings. I am sure that some people have a higher level of tolerance for disagreeable posts. I personally agree with the administrator here. He lets things go for perhaps a tiny bit longer than I would before pulling the plug.

I consider most of the MSers to be my friends, and I don't want to lose any more of them than necessary.

[HRM]

I certainly didn't complain. I still don't know WTF is going on.

[peevee]

How does anyone think this could end well?

[Tommy]

11 minutes ago, peevee said:

How does anyone think this could end well?

Easy. When we all listen to our law professor, admit that we are wrong, be humbled by the experience, but delighted with the knowledge gained.

That's what growing up is all about...

 

[Tommy]

14 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

 

In the same vein in which I wrote the previous post, I will respond, once.

I, too, think that the original incident gave rise to worthwhile discussion for a period of time. But like some others, it went downhill into name calling and what I considered to be outright rudeness.

I appreciate your idea that we can choose what we want to read, but on MS, and perhaps others, there appears to be a lot of thread drift, and I often have to read a lot ofsome posts before I figure out I really am not interested.  Maybe this is just me.

Maybe I am being dramatic, but I have read at least one person's post on MS that "he was leaving and wouldn't be back". I hate to lose helpful folks here, because of bad feelings. I am sure that some people have a higher level of tolerance for disagreeable posts. I personally agree with the administrator here. He lets things go for perhaps a tiny bit longer than I would before pulling the plug.

I consider most of the MSers to be my friends, and I don't want to lose any more of them than necessary.

Ok Don, may I ask couple of questions please?

Is this topic aviation related?

Are there new facts and information presented every couple of hours if not every hour?

If the anwser is yes and yes, then the only reason for shutting this discussion is because it's hurting people's feeling (which is not what Mooniac58 stated). 

I don't like to lose friends any more than you do but sometimes I like to keep friends that I know it's worthwhile keeping (not people who are only agreeing with me but people who can present facts and share knowledge / experience not some bullshit opinions)...

[thinwing]

1 hour ago, Browncbr1 said:

2017 Little Timmy trophy winner!

Bingo!..where do they come from?

[mooniac58]

Here are the facts:

a] I am the "supreme leader" of this website if that means I am the only one answering the dozens of emails and reports per day and trying to keep the peace and paying the bills to keep it online and software-current.  I decide what stays and what goes and *you* decide whether you want to stay or go.   I have been running forum websites for 15+ years and I know when s**t is doing downhill.  

b]  Truth is on an average day I might get 1-2 reports on topics.  When the United topics were live I was getting 10-15.  I don't have time or the resources to deal with it.  I have done this to countless other topics on this forum through the years.

c] I only have one person that seems to care about me locking these topics up (I don't need to mention names) and I have had dozens of "likes" on the lock posts and many other emails from members thanking me and/or asking me to lock new posts being made on the same topic.

I believe that my actions were doing what the majority of the community wanted.  Again I only have just one person that seems to be upset about locking the topics and a whole lot of others begging and thanking me for doing so.

[Tommy]

1 minute ago, thinwing said:

Bingo!..where do they come from?

Oh wait look who is here to pick a fight?

[thinwing]

Just now, Tommy said:

Oh wait look who is here to pick a fight?

No fight...just go away ..please

[peevee]

Sounds like you need some mods. You can't admin the forum and moderate it. Too much for one person. Btdt, sold the website though.

[Tommy]

 

18 minutes ago, mooniac58 said:

Here are the facts:

a] I am the "supreme leader" of this website if that means I am the only one answering the dozens of emails and reports per day and trying to keep the peace.  I decide what stays and what goes and *you* decide whether you want to stay or go.   I have been running forum websites for 15+ years and I know when s**t is doing downhill.  

b]  Truth is on an average day I might get 1-2 reports on topics.  When the United topics were live I was getting 10-15.  I don't have time or the resources to deal with it.  I have done this to countless other topics on this forum through the years.

c] I only have one person that seems to care about me locking these topics up (I don't need to mention names) and I have had dozens of "likes" on the lock posts and many other emails from members thanking me and/or asking me to lock new posts being made on the same topic.

I believe that my actions were doing what the majority of the community wanted.  Again I only have just one person that seems to be upset about locking the topics and a whole lot of others begging and thanking me for doing so.

Do you actually publish the rules regarding posting? I don't seem to be able to find it anywhere. And if so, do you actually follow the rules or is it all about your convenience, which is how I read it from your reply? "I don't have time" well then why do you ask for people's financial support and have ads on this page if you are not prepared to put in some work to deal with 10-15 questions a day?

And what's the reasons for these people asking you to lock it up? Because it's hurting their feelings? 

Majority? Care to take a vote on this? Or is it again your own opinion? Just like the time when you think it was a good idea to have an unmoderated "ranting" forum on non-aviation-related issues? We all know how that went....

Maybe the majority is actually enjoying the discussion but they don't bother (and who would) to write to you and congratulate you on how informative the forum is. People tend to whinge. Have you ever considered that? 

 

 

[MyNameIsNobody]

16 minutes ago, mooniac58 said:

Here are the facts:

a] I am the "supreme leader" of this website if that means I am the only one answering the dozens of emails and reports per day and trying to keep the peace and paying the bills to keep it online and software-current.  I decide what stays and what goes and *you* decide whether you want to stay or go.   I have been running forum websites for 15+ years and I know when s**t is doing downhill.  

b]  Truth is on an average day I might get 1-2 reports on topics.  When the United topics were live I was getting 10-15.  I don't have time or the resources to deal with it.  I have done this to countless other topics on this forum through the years.

c] I only have one person that seems to care about me locking these topics up (I don't need to mention names) and I have had dozens of "likes" on the lock posts and many other emails from members thanking me and/or asking me to lock new posts being made on the same topic.

I believe that my actions were doing what the majority of the community wanted.  Again I only have just one person that seems to be upset about locking the topics and a whole lot of others begging and thanking me for doing so.

You know what Supreme Leader...B.S.  I have made reports on direct "YOU" statements and there are crickets in response.  Not consistent at all.  Maybe you need to spread the "God" power out if you are overworked.

Name a name.  Come out of the closet.  Don't beat around the bush.  Out the spade....Do it.....Come on, DO IT.

[Hank]

Tommy, you are being aggressively argumentative. Step away from the keyboard and calm down . . . .

When a thread spirals down too far and posters are losing control, it's time to shut down the threads where this is happening. Keep going, and this one will get locked, too. I avoided the Little Tommy thread after the first few pages, but the United threads went much farther much faster. Just like this one is doing.

My vote is to keep Mooneyspace a polite, civilized site. I've learned a lot here, and tried to share with others. Too much yelling and namecalling will ruin a good thing. I find myself wishing for an ignore button again . . . . If you enjoy arguing and name calling, please visit the AOPA and Pilots of America forums, where it has become a high art form, but do not do so here!

[Tommy]

1 hour ago, thinwing said:

No fight...just go away ..please

Hey, dude. You really need to quit stalking me like this. I am starting to think that you are having a crush on me...

[Andy95W]

Here's an idea for our supreme leader- Maybe we should have an area where people can participate in these sorts of discussions, and other people don't even need to bother looking at if they don't wish to see it.

Maybe we could call it "Rants and Raves" or something like that.

Oh, wait... deja vu...

[Hank]

5 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

Here's an idea for our supreme leader- Maybe we should have an area where people can participate in these sorts of discussions, and other people don't even need to bother looking at if they don't wish to see it.

Maybe we could call it "Rants and Raves" or something like that.

Oh, wait... deja vu...

 No, let's don't. Just like with the United threads, the fussing a d fighting will lead to  raised feeling so that will carry over I to the rest of the site. Wait to to argue? Visit AOPA Forum, they're really good at it. Let's keep ALL of Mooneyspace civil. 

[Tommy]

44 minutes ago, Hank said:

Tommy, you are being aggressively argumentative. Step away from the keyboard and calm down . . . .

When a thread spirals down too far and posters are losing control, it's time to shut down the threads where this is happening. Keep going, and this one will get locked, too. I avoided the Little Tommy thread after the first few pages, but the United threads went much farther much faster. Just like this one is doing.

My vote is to keep Mooneyspace a polite, civilized site. I've learned a lot here, and tried to share with others. Too much yelling and namecalling will ruin a good thing. I find myself wishing for an ignore button again . . . . If you enjoy arguing and name calling, please visit the AOPA and Pilots of America forums, where it has become a high art form, but do not do so here!

I am not being argumentative, Hank. I am simply asking for clarification. Are there any rules we can follow when it comes to posting? What constitutes as "out-of-control?" How does admin deal with complaints? Is there a procedure to follow? It's really not good enough to say I have no time to deal with 10-15 emails a day therefore I am closing this thread considering you are asking for financial support and placing ads on this website (well give me the mod job, I will be glad to help out) 

My original post on United incident was not an invitation for debate nor an insult to anyone (I mentioned no names in my original post). And you have to agree, Hank, it's perfectly aviation-related (more so than people's prostate, tooth decay, and girl friends - okay I think I am laboring the points). 

Then along came people who disagree with my assessment and decided to reply with their opinions. Now do I go "oh crap this is going to get out of the hand and I am hurting someone's feeling" therefore I better lay down and die or should I offer my rebuttal?

Then some people decided to persist despite loosing the argument. I actually wasn't going to keep going because I exhausted my legal knowledge (very little to start with) so I decided to go away and do some research. Coincidentally the thread was locked up - no reasons given. Undeterred, after I done the research, I came back with more information and facts so I posted it again as a FYI only (I stated very clearly).

The along came people who clearly did not know what FYI means.... can you see the repeating pattern here? 

Blaming the victim much, Hank?