Continental Mandatory SB

[PTK]

 

Came across this today...

http://www.tcmlink.com/pdf2/MSB05-8B.pdf

AD coming down the pike. 

It'd be interesting to see what Continental does. Will they treat customers fairly or is it going to be a feeding frenzy! 

[KSMooniac]

Big panic/discussion on Beechtalk... CMI is pushing hard to make it an AD.

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[gsengle]

The Aopa article makes it sound like it is limited to 1999 through 2005 or so engines - anyone have any insight on this?


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[Robert C.]

Mike Bush/Savvy sent out a special letter to its mailing list urging everyone to register opposition all but accusing TCM of ulterior motives.

.........Now here's the rub: MSB05-8B calls for replacing the gear "within the next 100 hours of operation, at the next engine overhaul (not to exceed 12 years engine time in service), or whenever the camshaft gear is accessible, whichever occurs first." If the FAA were to do what Continental is asking, any engine built, rebuilt or overhauled prior to 2005 would have to be torn down immediately, and any newer engine would have to be torn down within 100 hours unless it can be shown that the new-style thicker gear is already installed.

FAA may not buy into the 100-hour compliance requirement, but very well might go with the 12-year requirement (only a guess). Another school of thought is that the FAA may not have an appetite to take on such an expensive and controversial AD under the anti-regulation climate of the current Administration (but I wouldn't bet on it).

For now, all we can do is wait for the other shoe to drop and see what the FAA's Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) says. I urge every Continental owner whose engine(s) might be affected to keep a close eye out for the NPRM and reply to the rulemaking docket during the public comment period (which is usually only 30 days). Unless the FAA can make a compelling case for a genuinely unsafe condition (rather than a freak failure or two), I think the owner community should fight this AD tooth and nail.......

 

[peevee]

Man that's really gonna suck 

[par]

A question for the lawyer types. Why can't the engine manufacturer be held responsible for these incidents? I can't think of one other industry that can operate these two monopoly engine manufacturers do. What a huge expense for an owner to take on to essentially fix their screwup.

Edited April 5, 2017 by par

[gsengle]

I had a similar situation with the old lycoming crankshaft AD. They offered replacement parts cheap and I ended up replacing a bunch of parts at overhaul and saved significantly at overhaul. At a minimum Continental shouldn't get to profit on the replacement parts....


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[carusoam]

Look up the Crappy example of the lycoming crank shafts in the IO540 a ways back.  Or the corroded cam shafts in the IO360s. The oil gear pumps in the O360, the one with an aluminum gear instead of something dissimilar like a SS one...

what is going to make this go smoothly is how well they documented the parts going in the engine during the build.  This will keep people from having to open the engine to have a looksee to confirm that they do indeed have a good gear in there.

There is a warranty period and after that, the owner gets stuck with it.

Manufacturing engineer thoughts only, not a lawyer type.

Best regards,

-a-

Edited April 5, 2017 by carusoam

[ArtVandelay]

Once they publish the SB, I assume they will use that as putting the blame back on the owner. I believe in auto industry only emissions/safety problems are fix by car company once past warranty period, engine problem is on you, of course you can argue an engine problem in a plane is a safety issue.

[carusoam]

TJ,

The VW issue was an example of criminal activity...  knowingly changing a computer program to cheat, instead of passing a legal  environmental test.

add to that the GM example of having bad ignition switches that they knew about, and changed the part design without giving it a  proper new part number.  When the switch failed, the steering wheel locked and turned off the airbag at the same time.

The MSB is clearly showing us different part numbers to be looking for. TCM is having a challenge.  They haven't shown any criminal behavior.

PP thoughts only, with a side of manufacturing engineering to go.

Best regards,

-a-

[peevee]

In our case the engine was installed as a factory reman in 96 and then field overhauled after a prop strike in 2006. The shop that did the o/h appears to be out of business and the cam was rebuilt if I remember correctly. We really have no way to figure out which sprocket we have other than measuring the teeth if that's even possible.

 

If you think about all the budget or value planes with 520s in them like the older bos and the Vikings and such most of them aren't really worth a lot, I imagine a large number will never fly again if this becomes a now kind of thing.

[gsengle]

The only possible silver lining personally is my 1996 engine is at 1970 hours. That said, it isn't showing a single sign of being time to overhaul and I plan to overhaul on condition - and then do the 2700hp stc / new prop...

 

Hope the FAA doesn't jam up all the shops leaving many of us grounded.

 

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[M20S Driver]

So if we have to comply, how much does it cost to open the engine and replace the gear?  Does anyone know?  

I think continental is just greedy and trying to milk this SB for more revenue...   I called them today and they are not aware of any failures related to this SB..

They were aware of this since 2005..  what changed now?  I guess the fact that it has been 12 years helps them with less issues with the liabilities and opens the door for more sales.  

[peevee]

2 minutes ago, M20S Driver said:

So if we have to comply, how much does it cost to open the engine and replace the damn gear?  Does anyone know?  

I think continental is just greedy and trying to milk this SB for more revenue...   I called them today and they are not aware of any failures related to this SB..

They were aware of this since 2005..  what changed now?  I guess the fact that it has been 12 years helps them with less issues with the liabilities and opens the door for more sales.  

I mean, you have to split the case so it's a full tear down. How much labor is that? 80 hours? I've been quoted 17k to r&r an engine and have the mount overhauled so I imagine this will be similar.

[M20S Driver]

Just now, peevee said:

I mean, you have to split the case so it's a full tear down. How much labor is that? 80 hours?

Honestly, I think my engine will be less reliable after a surgery like this.  My guess is that we will see more engine failures due to workmanship at the shops than we may see from the gear failures.

[peevee]

Just now, M20S Driver said:

Honestly, I think my engine will be less reliable after a surgery like this.  My guess is that we will see more engine failures due to workmanship at the shops than we may see from the gear failures.

Dunno, maybe? 

[KSMooniac]

There was at least one incident related to this SB, and it was documented extensively on Beechtalk.  I believe this incident ultimately led to the SB.  The owner/pilot of the incident engine/plane did a tremendous job running his own forensic investigation into the failure.

[aviatoreb]

This would totally clog the engine shops and cause ALOT of airplanes to be grounded for a year or two waiting for their turn in the shop.  

[Jeff_S]

If this ever becomes an AD, I predict a rash of forced wheelbarrow landings or perhaps a lot of forgetful pilots who accidentally leave the gear up!

[BKlott]

On 4/5/2017 at 10:17 PM, Jeff_S said:

If this ever becomes an AD, I predict a rash of forced wheelbarrow landings or perhaps a lot of forgetful pilots who accidentally leave the gear up!

Or leave the tow bar on at start-up...prop strike.