GLD 90 Anyone? Looking to add Weather and Traffic

[TLSDriver]

Quote: N4352H

You guys are getting your GDL's mixed up. The GDL 69 is $2k used, $4.5k new and provides weather and XM services (100% subscription). The GDL 90 (about $8k installed and you have to have a series 200 display)is an ADS-B Data Link receiver that can display TIS-B and FIS-B weather and traffic data link, broadcast by the FAA. With the GDL 69, you pay for weather and music. With the GDL 90, you get traffic and most of the weather for free from the federal government. Any smart avionics dealer will tell you it way too early to buy a GDL-90. I have a friend (Baron diver)  who used one and said he had a continuous data stream from Wash DC to Sarasota. FAA Next Gen mandates are unclear, so your investment in a GDL90 corresponds. The GTX 330 transponder will display traffic hits for many years to come and it is THE BOMB!!

[kortopates]

The FAA did just recently published the final ADS-B out performance requirements this past May. Unfortunately they went with a dual standards for ADS-B Out and left ADS-B In for another day. ADS-B In requirments, defining air-to-air applications for TIS-B (traffic) and FIS-B (weather) are still in their infancy - but we do know they will only be provided over the UAT 978 MHz such as provided by the GDL-90.  Turbo aircraft that want to continue to fly at 18K and above after 2020 will require 1090 MHz Extended Squitter (ES) - an extension of Mode S; available in the GTX 330 ES (for about $5.5K or about 2k more than the base GTX 330). So unfortuanetly, high performance aircraft seeking ADS-B In services will require both: the 1090ES for ADS-B Out and a separate UAT for ADS-B IN services. Given that standards for ADS-B In services are still only in their infancy it is risky to invest anything sizable like the $8K cost of  the GDL-90 - especially when you'll only be using half of the boxes capabilities if you need the 1090ES ADS-B Out. Hopefully over time, we'll see more choices, such as a UAT ADS-B IN only capability, (i.e. a GDL90 without ADS-B Out) to complement a 1090ES installation providing ADS-B Out. They're available now in portable form, so we should see them become available for panel mount solutions in the near future.

Seems like we'll continue to need a GDL-69A or WSI recieiver for music and weather when flying oustide the US - so I expect to get many more years out of GMX-200 with its GDL-69A and WX-500.

[kortopates]

Finally, if the GTX 330 and the GLD 90 cost exactly the same what would you put in your plane today?  And why.

 

[flyboy0681]

Weather is the obvious answer, but I lost a very close flying buddy a number of years ago to a midair in the Teterboro traffic area and that changed my whole outlook on traffic. The aftermath of that incident was just horrible.

[fantom]

From what I've seen, most of the midairs around airports, often with a CFI on board, are due to all the glass and other, sometimes confusng, gizmos we've come to depend on. Since there are more (many) targets around airports, traffic monitors help little and only encourage you to keep your eyeballs on the panel rather than outside, where they should be. 

Also, if that guy aiming at you in MVFR, either doesn"t have a transponder or it's turned off......you're screwed.

Do yourself, and your family a favor by keeping your head on a swivel, and your eyes outside.

[Piloto]

Quote: Vref

Wondering which is the best MRX or the ATD..?

I had an MRX in my previous aircraft (have to buy a new one) though sometimes I had ghost warnings suddenly..Mostly it worked OK. Thinking of an XRX also...more $ but I guess more capable............

-L

[TLSDriver]

I wasn't thinking of this as an eithier/or propsostion as far as weather or traffic. I want both.  I was hoping that the the $8,000 garmin box would do that.

I was hoping that the trafic would show up on the aspen and maybe the weather on the mx-20.

TIS seems sparse in my area.  Maybe getting an avideyne and a gdl 69 is a decent compromise. Or a 696 for weahter.

The gang does seem to love the gtx 330 but if it doesnt show traffic in many\most of the places I fly I don't think I should go that way.

 

 

[KLRDMD]

Quote: TLSDriver

I spoke with 2 avoinics shops about going with ADS-B.  Much to my suprise they both told me the same thing - stay away from this technology.

[Vref]

Quote: Piloto

Wondering which is the best MRX or the ATD..?

I had an MRX in my previous aircraft (have to buy a new one) though sometimes I had ghost warnings suddenly..Mostly it worked OK. Thinking of an XRX also...more $ but I guess more capable............

-L

[John Pleisse]

Hey TLS Driver....I'd bet Aspen will have an ADS-B box soon (w/in 2 yrs). Problem is, Garmin will go out of their way to make their boxes proprietary and incompatable with the Aspen. But I'll bet you 10 to 1 Aspen will end up building a better mouse trap, cheaper and sooner.

[TLSDriver]

Quote: N4352H

Hey TLS Driver....I'd bet Aspen will have an ADS-B box soon (w/in 2 yrs). Problem is, Garmin will go out of their way to make their boxes proprietary and incompatable with the Aspen. But I'll bet you 10 to 1 Aspen will end up building a better mouse trap, cheaper and sooner.

[Piloto]

Not to undermind ADS-B but how is it going to be better than what is there now. After all XM/WX works all the way to the ground from Alaska to the Bahamas and it can be purchased for much less. On the traffic side you have all these TCAS devices that receives directly from the traffic transponder without the need of ground stations. And works anywhere in the world even in the event of GPS outages. Just tell me one ADS-B feature that is better than the above.

Jose

[John Pleisse]

In terms of features both are indentical, but ADS-B is free. TCAS, TIS and/or a cheap XM WX box combined, cost far more than Garmin's first ADS-B box. And then with XM, you pay a monthly fee in perpetuity. Look, I am pipe dreaming for technology that should not be bought for 5 years. However, on the drawing board, it's a great system and in most areas, you can use it now.

[OR75]

it is probably normal that ADS-B does not seem to bring anything new to GA. The FAA is there for safety of flight not innovation.  In this case, the FAA makes use of exisiting technology to improve safety as the amount of traffic increases.  (keep in mind the FAA worry is the passenger who bought a ticket to fly somewhere)  

My dream is for a 6 1/4" wide x  3 to 5" box that has GPS + ADS-B in and out.

     

[Vref]

Quote: rorythedog

Wondering which is the best MRX or the ATD..?

I had an MRX in my previous aircraft (have to buy a new one) though sometimes I had ghost warnings suddenly..Mostly it worked OK. Thinking of an XRX also...more $ but I guess more capable............

-L

[OR75]

I forgot to say for less than 10 amu

[rorythedog]

vref,

i do not have the directional antenna, but i think my unit is upgradable and i plan to do so in the future. i think the monroy is more solid...it is metal where the zaon is plastic. the nicest feature is the audible warning in your headset. the zaon has to be watched and that increases workload and a bit of anxiety. it's hard to believe, but there are airplanes flying around without transponders so you have to watch out around uncontrolled airports. and also, since these are passive systems there could be a lag time before a target is "seen".

[Piloto]

Quote: N4352H

In terms of features both are indentical, but ADS-B is free. TCAS, TIS and/or a cheap XM WX box combined, cost far more than Garmin's first ADS-B box. And then with XM, you pay a monthly fee in perpetuity. Look, I am pipe dreaming for technology that should not be bought for 5 years. However, on the drawing board, it's a great system and in most areas, you can use it now.

[John Pleisse]

Jose...with all due respect, it has nothing to do with the number of GA planes who use it. It's all about fitting more big airplanes into the system at a higher safety margin (Part 121). It's here, it'll be a done deal and it's a bargin at 2 bil.

Buy a GDL 69 and pay on an XM subscription for two years and you are at 75% of the cost of a new ADS-B box. In September, half the sites weren't on line yet. Now you can fly the whole east coast and get it continuously. Is it safer or better? Who knows....They are now saying the drop in accident rates in Alaska had little to do with ADS-B/Next Gen and more to do with basic GPS navigation systems and increased situational awareness with moving maps' etc.

[Piloto]

Quote: N4352H

Jose...with all due respect, it has nothing to do with the number of GA planes who use it. It's all about fitting more big airplanes into the system at a higher safety margin (Part 121). It's here, it'll be a done deal and it's a bargin at 2 bil.

Buy a GDL 69 and pay on an XM subscription for two years and you are at 75% of the cost of a new ADS-B box. In September, half the sites weren't on line yet. Now you can fly the whole east coast and get it continuously. Is it safer or better? Who knows....They are now saying the drop in accident rates in Alaska had little to do with ADS-B/Next Gen and more to do with basic GPS navigation systems and increased situational awareness with moving maps' etc.

[Vref]

Quote: Piloto

Never heard of a bottle neck or traffic jam at FL300.