Mooney vs Cirrus

[SkepticalJohn]

I had a neat experience in my 1980 M20K 231 yesterday and thought I'd share.

My wife and I were returning from a weekend trip at 5500' MSL (because icing was higher). My iPad, via ForeFlight and the stratus 2s onboard, started showing traffic 4 NM ahead and descended to the approximate same heading and altitude as we were cruising. Their groundspeed while descending was 170 and ours level was 180. They leveled off and we drove around them at a pretty good clip and continued to our destination. A quick lookup on flight aware showed the aircraft, N998DF, was a 2013 Cirrus SR-22T. I got a kick out of thinking about my 37 year old bird passing this almost new 1/2 million dollar airplane on 75% of the fuel he was probably using.

Mooneys are awesome!

John

[Danb]

John get used to it, sometimes the others get pissy when ATC has them move for faster moving Mooney traffic, I believe when I've heard that the controller must be a Mooney guy.

[rbridges]

On the other hand, I was flying in to KPDK in Atlanta, and they moved me to #2 behind a Learjet. Kinda ruffled my feathers. 

[bonal]

I always like this kind of tale especialy when my preferred make is the victor.  But to be fair you have no idea what power settings the Cirrus was running.  All things considered our Mooney's are very efficient having an over 50 year old design that can level cruise at just under 150 knots true on 9 gallons per hour on 180 horse power is pretty amazing especially when you consider my 1035 pound useful load and 600mile range with 1 hour reserve

[rbridges]

My buddy just bought a normally aspirated G3 sr22. Flying at 65%, he seemed to be doing 155-160.  It's a very nice plane, and it's a lot bigger up close than I first thought. 

[M20S Driver]

2 minutes ago, rbridges said:

My buddy just bought a normally aspirated G3 sr22. Flying at 65%, he seemed to be doing 155-160.  It's a very nice plane, and it's a lot bigger up close than I first thought. 

OK...  Let's do it....

It also has a parachute

[Alain B]

Dont ask me to compare a brand new SR22T with an  Acclaim Type S . It would be like try to compare a potato vs a kiwano . I just made some comparison test flight between both . 

Here is some number at FL 180 :

Mooney :  27 Inches MP , 2400 RPM , 50 LOP , 14.5 GPH , between 200 and 205 Knots 

Cirrus : 90 % power , 30 inches MP , 2500 RPM , 50 ROP , 20.5 GPH , between 190 and 192 Knots . 

There was a small difference in GW , however it was not really significant . 

Edited February 15, 2017 by Alain B

[exM20K]

 

Apples:Apples for Alain's comp:

M20TN FL180 50*ROP  20.2 GPH = 224KTAS vs SR22T's 191KTAS.  Mooney wins hands down.

Quality of stick & rudder flying:  Mooney wins hands down. I don't like the side yoke, and the plane will not hold airspeed.

Build quality: Mooney wins hands down.  Look down the wing of an SR22 in the sun.....

Cabin comfort / ramp appeal: Cirrus wins by a nose or maybe a length.

Useful load:  The Acclaim's Achilles Heel.  FIKI planes have ~900# vs 1100# or more for the Cirrus.

Avionics: Cirrus wins with better G1000 systems and keypads, but Mooney is supposedly fixing this with the Ultra.

 

If the Acclaim fits your mission, it's the better plane.  The Cirrus, however, carries more with reasonable speed and better avionics at the expense of good hand-flying qualities. Family of 4 with teenagers and a nervous spouse? Cirrus.  Couple that likes to travel far and wide? Acclaim.

 

To the OP: I owned a TKS'd 231 for 12 years, and it was the right set of compromises for me over a long time and changing lifestyles:  Single guy -> Married guy -> family of 3 -> family of 4.  Had I not gotten into the Diamond business, I probably would have kept it forever.

 

-de

N676JM

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

From the Cirrus forum.  The other day this guy in some old tin bucket pulled up and passed me all the while leaking fuel and corrosion dust everywhere, and he had to hand fly it.  Just awful the things you see out there!!

Clarence

[Alain B]

52 minutes ago, exM20K said:

 

Apples:Apples for Alain's comp:

M20TN FL180 50*ROP  20.2 GPH = 224KTAS vs SR22T's 191KTAS.  Mooney wins hands down.

Quality of stick & rudder flying:  Mooney wins hands down. I don't like the side yoke, and the plane will not hold airspeed.

Build quality: Mooney wins hands down.  Look down the wing of an SR22 in the sun.....

Cabin comfort / ramp appeal: Cirrus wins by a nose or maybe a length.

Useful load:  The Acclaim's Achilles Heel.  FIKI planes have ~900# vs 1100# or more for the Cirrus.

Avionics: Cirrus wins with better G1000 systems and keypads, but Mooney is supposedly fixing this with the Ultra.

 

If the Acclaim fits your mission, it's the better plane.  The Cirrus, however, carries more with reasonable speed and better avionics at the expense of good hand-flying qualities. Family of 4 with teenagers and a nervous spouse? Cirrus.  Couple that likes to travel far and wide? Acclaim.

 

To the OP: I owned a TKS'd 231 for 12 years, and it was the right set of compromises for me over a long time and changing lifestyles:  Single guy -> Married guy -> family of 3 -> family of 4.  Had I not gotten into the Diamond business, I probably would have kept it forever.

 

-de

N676JM

 

 

 

 

Ultras's will be deliver with a G1000 NXi , same avionics as Cirrus with a different name , only the keyboard is different . Ramp appeal : well it depend to who you talk too . At my age , i dont care much about kids , so no issues for me . Usefull load : I go nearly 40 % farther on the same load of gas , or i use much less gaz and arrive way faster . Where is the gain ? 

Cirruses are plane for the wife , Mooney are plane for the pilots ! Some fellow here told me this once . I agree with him . Flying quality : my old Beaver flew better , was more nimble , sturdier and constructed better then Cirrus . My old Beaver is 50 years old now and still fly like a charm . It will probably outlive me . Show me a 25 years old Cirrus ?  It all depend if you want to show off on Sunday afternoon , or fly and go places for real . 

 

Sorry for Cirrus's guys , that's my opinion . As for me : this matter is closed . 

 

 

[Alain B]

26 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

From the Cirrus forum.  The other day this guy in some old tin bucket pulled up and passed me all the while leaking fuel and corrosion dust everywhere, and he had to hand fly it.  Just awful the things you see out there!!

Clarence

Tell this Cirrus guy we will take him in tow ! 

[1964-M20E]

Hey I love my Mooney but someone wanted to give me a brand new Cirrus I'd take it as long as they paid the taxes on it.  Would likely trade it in for a new Ultra but I'd take it.

 

 

 

 

[rbridges]

36 minutes ago, 1964-M20E said:

Hey I love my Mooney but someone wanted to give me a brand new Cirrus I'd take it as long as they paid the taxes on it.  Would likely trade it in for a new Ultra but I'd take it.

 

 

 

 

my friend was complaining that the parachute repack (?) is due next year for $15k.  It's definitely in a different price level than my vintage mooney.

[Yooper Rocketman]

2 hours ago, M20Doc said:

From the Cirrus forum.  The other day this guy in some old tin bucket pulled up and passed me all the while leaking fuel and corrosion dust everywhere, and he had to hand fly it.  Just awful the things you see out there!!

Clarence

Ok Doc,  you've been really good to me lately but I can't resist.   Did he get passed by a Commanche?

Tom

[Joe Zuffoletto]

4 hours ago, Alain B said:

Cirruses are plane for the wife , Mooney are plane for the pilots ! Some fellow here told me this once . I agree with him .

That was probably me. I posted that saying on this site some time ago. My wife said it, not me. But I certainly agree.

If the Acclaim suits your mission, there's nothing better at that price point.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Yooper Rocketman said:

Ok Doc,  you've been really good to me lately but I can't resist.   Did he get passed by a Commanche?

Tom

Tom,

Actually the Mooney was running extra LoP because he was following a Comanche 400, which we all know leaves a huge fuel trail.

Clarence

[bradp]

These discussions are fun. No cirri drivers to defend themselves. A higher proportion of cirii have weather capabilities and they keep upping the useful load.

Mooney needs to get on the game. The problem is that they haven't innovated on a great Air frame in what, 25 years. A second door and fancy glass doesn't count as innovation in my book. It's like a stagnation of ideas.


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[ziggysanchez]

My NA Cirrus SR 22 outperformed my K model at lower altitudes by at least 10-15 kts. My K doesn't start to get better numbers than the NA 22 until above 12000 ft so I'm guessing the 22T was at a lower power setting. My cruise true airspeed LOP in the NA Cirrus at altitudes up to 12000ft was between 167 and 173 kts @ between 13 & 14 GPH. ROP at the same altitudes was 176 to 178 kts true at between 17 & 18 GPH.  I had about 2000 hours in that Cirrus before purchasing my K model.

Edited February 16, 2017 by ziggysanchez

[aviatoreb]

3 minutes ago, ziggysanchez said:

My NA Cirrus SR 22 outperformed my K model at lower altitudes by at least 10-15 kts. My K doesn't start to get better numbers than the NA 22 until above 12000 ft so I'm guessing the 22T was at a lower power setting. My cruise true airspeed LOP in the NA Cirrus at altitudes up to 12000ft was between 167 and 173 kts @ between 13 & 14 GPH. ROP at the same altitudes was 176 to 178 kts true at between 17 & 18 GPH.  I had about 2000 hours in that Cirrus before purchasing my K model.

So you are a rare bird - can you say what was involved in your decision to sell a relatively new Cirrus to buy an old bird like an M20K?  And how you feel about the change now?

[Yetti]

In the last year or so Cirrus = 3 stall spin in from the pattern  Mooney = 0 for Texas Airspace.  the last stall spin in was a higher time military pilot.    Something about that wing I don't trust.

[gsengle]

So you are a rare bird - can you say what was involved in your decision to sell a relatively new Cirrus to buy an old bird like an M20K?  And how you feel about the change now?

Below 10k a 210hp K isn't a fair fight is it? Compare with an Ovation.... even a 280hp early one.


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[Danb]

If we want to actually compare the performance aspects of our planes to those of the Cirrus variety, its not a fair comparison. My next door friend at the airport has a G3srTurbo. We were comparing our typical numbers on similar trips, while she had 310 HP to my measly 270HP the comparison was astounding. From a comfort level it's subjective and I'm more comfy in my Mooney than other singles I've been in. IMHO my Bravo handles far superior than her plastic plane, travels about 25 knots faster and I have superior range. What's not to like. We flew to S.C. about 500NM as a nice guy they left first, and I waited in Charleston for 30 minutes wondering what happened to them, nothing just a typical flight. The Mooney's were made for speed and that's what they deliver, to really outperform one must have a experimental plane or a strong Twin, as most twins can not keep up with the Acclaim let alone a good Bravo. I purchased my Mooneys for speed,comfort (I'm a small guy and it fits like a glove) safety and handling. My story your's could differ.

[Danb]

Greg there aren't many fair fights when comparing Mooney's to our competition

[gsengle]

Nice new page on the Mooney site relevant to this conversation...

http://www.mooney.com/en/features.html


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[Shadrach]

2 hours ago, bradp said:

These discussions are fun. No cirri drivers to defend themselves. A higher proportion of cirii have weather capabilities and they keep upping the useful load.

Mooney needs to get on the game. The problem is that they haven't innovated on a great Air frame in what, 25 years. A second door and fancy glass doesn't count as innovation in my book. It's like a stagnation of ideas.


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The airframe is fully evolved.  There is not much left.  Reg determine max stall speed for the category and the Mooney isn't going to be able to put more weight in it without either making the plane lighter or modifying the wing.