Flap Pump rebuild picture dump

[TheTurtle]

I dont see enough DIY threads with pictures.  I understand thats because most of us arent A&Ps that work on planes.  There are a lot of us that do as much owner assist as our IAs will allow.  To that end I'm going to try to be more proactive about taking pictures and posting them.

I took my flap pump apart due to a small leak.  Heres what I found inside:

Before yanking it I took a bunch of pics so I know what needs safety wire and what position things are oriented.

 

[TheTurtle]

here it is out of the plane

[TheTurtle]

cracked the halves apart to find this:

Dont lose those white plastic grommets they dont come with the lasar rebuild kit for some reason.

 

[TheTurtle]

after taking out the shaft

there are a minimum of 2 orings inside the cap.  one towards the front and either 1 (mine had 2) towards the non threaded (back).  Theres a third around the outside which mine didnt even have originally.

The white curly que is a spacer if your gap is to big.  It basically keeps the oring from moving around.  Mine came out with 2 orings there...  I replaced with one oring and the curly que.  You still have the "nose" oring as well.

 

[TheTurtle]

Heres the plunger and the leather orings eveyone talks about.  Unfortunately the new leather that came in my kit were way to big for my plunger.  I called lasar and they said the leather is just a "wiper" it doesnt seal anything and I would be ok leaving the old ones.  I did replace the center rubber oring though.

[TheTurtle]

Annnnd Im an idiot and didnt take any pictures of removing the parts from the other half of the pump.  Bascally just more orings lol.  Nothing complicated.  And getting the halves back together was no factor, although Ive have heard complaints on the forums.  springs and balls dont go flying an this project which is nice.

[rbridges]

thanks!  having manual flaps, I've seen the occasional gripes about the leather piece, but I never knew what exactly was being described.  This is a nice DIY thread.

[TheTurtle]

2 minutes ago, rbridges said:

thanks!  having manual flaps, I've seen the occasional gripes about the leather piece, but I never knew what exactly was being described.  This is a nice DIY thread.

yea me too.  Its actually 2 leather "wipers".  No idea why mine are way to big as you can see in the pics.  I didnt push them on it but you'd think lasar would have offered to send me the right parts but they seemed more up on the idea of they are a nightmare to get the new ones on and since they arent a sealling oring dont worry about it. 

[RLCarter]

I soaked the (2) leather pieces in hydrolic fluid for several hours, it was a slow go getting them back in the cylinder but they went. 

[carusoam]

I had the ball run for the floor drain!  

Great photos...

have you got the fluid back in the system yet?  Getting the air bubbles out may take some ideas on how to get it started...

Probably has something to do with how nicely lubed the orings and leather wiper is... 

PP experience from a 65C...

Best regards,

-a-

[N601RX]

These are often airlocked when reinstalled and difficult to prime even with a vac pot.  Getting it as full of oil as possible during reassembly will make the priming easy. 

[Andy95W]

1 hour ago, N601RX said:

These are often airlocked when reinstalled and difficult to prime even with a vac pot.  Getting it as full of oil as possible during reassembly will make the priming easy. 

+1!

As much as possible, try to prime (pre-load) that pump as much as possible with hydraulic fluid before installation. Makes a huge difference in eventually bleeding the whole system. 

[TheTurtle]

i hooked everything back up today.  I then disconnected the line from the pump to the cylinder and pressure bled until the fluid was coming out the overflow in the res (clamped a tube to drain down to a glass jar).  Tightened everything up and pumped the flaps in on the first try!!.  was a little worse than original in that it took almost 5 pumps for full flaps.  Used to take 4.25ish pumps.  I pumped it with the release open a few times and pumped flaps and released a few times and got it back to 4.25- 4.5 for full flaps.  I also reset the release screw.  My flaps were coming up in less than 5 second.  Probably more like 2 so the ass end would drop when you released flaps on climb out.  I slowed it way down so I think its going to be much smoother transitioning from takeoff to no flaps.  All in all its a nasty messy job and I really hate 5606 but its done and it wasnt to painful of a task.

[carusoam]

The news is in...

MS has robbed the turtle of the real Mooney experience...

No lost steel ball, and no endless pumping with no results!

 

Last detail I can remember...  the time for flap travel while flying is about half the time it is on the ground due to air pressure...

So if you have it slowed way down, that would be good.  If it is traveling quickly, that would be bad.  The MM gives some guidance on this...

 

Also consider,  Think about full flaps going back to T/O flaps during a go-around.  You don't want them dumping lift very quickly.  And you don't want to leave the max drag in place for too long either... slow and smooth transitions are good for airflow.

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[Nukemzzz]

Does anyone know at what angle the cable lever on the side of the pump should be when the cable lever in the cabin is down? My flaps are leaking up fast after a recent cable change. Right now I have the lever down and 90 from horizontal when the lever in the cabin is down. I suspect that’s not the right position and this is causing the ball to be slightly unseated because the flat on the shaft is turned off the ideal location. 

[RLCarter]

4 hours ago, Nukemzzz said:

Does anyone know at what angle the cable lever on the side of the pump should be when the cable lever in the cabin is down? My flaps are leaking up fast after a recent cable change. Right now I have the lever down and 90 from horizontal when the lever in the cabin is down. I suspect that’s not the right position and this is causing the ball to be slightly unseated because the flat on the shaft is turned off the ideal location. 

When I did mine I left the cable off at the valve/pump body so I could slightly rotate the arm if needed, once the "sweet spot" was found I marked it with a pencil..... laying under the plane you can move the piston (rod) by hand to pump the flaps down if you are going at it alone 

[Shadrach]

On 1/8/2017 at 9:08 PM, TheTurtle said:

i hooked everything back up today.  I then disconnected the line from the pump to the cylinder and pressure bled until the fluid was coming out the overflow in the res (clamped a tube to drain down to a glass jar).  Tightened everything up and pumped the flaps in on the first try!!.  was a little worse than original in that it took almost 5 pumps for full flaps.  Used to take 4.25ish pumps.  I pumped it with the release open a few times and pumped flaps and released a few times and got it back to 4.25- 4.5 for full flaps.  I also reset the release screw.  My flaps were coming up in less than 5 second.  Probably more like 2 so the ass end would drop when you released flaps on climb out.  I slowed it way down so I think its going to be much smoother transitioning from takeoff to no flaps.  All in all its a nasty messy job and I really hate 5606 but its done and it wasnt to painful of a task.

~10 secs on the ground makes for a nice but deliberate retraction in the air.

[carusoam]

Nuke,

There are two parts to be familiar with...

The valve opens and closes... but the oil flow through the system Has an adjustment...

See the turtle’s pics at the top...

From fuzzy ancient memory...

Best regards,

-a-

[qualleyiv]

If anyone has any interest, I took a video of rebuilding the pump that I would be happy to post if it would be useful...

[carusoam]

10 hours ago, qualleyiv said:

If anyone has any interest, I took a video of rebuilding the pump that I would be happy to post if it would be useful...

qualley,

Try to post the video in YouTube... then copy the link here...

It would be great to have it accessible the day somebody needs it... from wherever they are using whatever device they have available...

Best regards,

-a-

[r0mps]

On 5/4/2020 at 2:08 PM, qualleyiv said:

If anyone has any interest, I took a video of rebuilding the pump that I would be happy to post if it would be useful...

I 100% need this. 

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard r0mps...

Best regards,

-a-

[M20F-1968]

I would love to see the rebuild video.

John Breda

[cliffy]

On 1/8/2017 at 7:08 PM, TheTurtle said:

All in all its a nasty messy job and I really hate 5606 but its done and it wasnt to painful of a task.

OH YOU have NO Idea what messy is on airplanes  :-)

Wait till your first experience with Skydrol Hydraulic Fluid like the big boys use, 5606 is hand lotion after Skydrol. 

[TreetopMooney]

Can I jump in and hijack this thread? I have been lurking for a bit. A and p here. 1965 m20e. Overhauled the pump with the oring kit from laser. I’ve verified the correct placement of springs and ball bearings etc. reinstalled. Used the 12 step plan posted on here by the flap guru. Back-bled with pressure pot. Feels like there is no pressure when trying to pump flaps down. I can pump it down if I have the speed screw adjusted all the way down. It will pump down and hold pressure so the actuator isn’t leaking. In this configuration however it will no retract. If I make a micro adjustment on the retracting speed screw then it will not stay down when pumped down (still with very little to no pressure. Infinite pumps basically). I’m thinking maybe there is an issue with this flap speed retraction adjustment screw but maybe I don’t have enough air out of the system somehow even after back bleeding? Maybe both? If I missed something in my description forgive me. Ask questions and I will try and get back quickly.