amillet Posted June 22, 2022 Report Posted June 22, 2022 @kortopates posted this in 2020: AVGAS <> 100LL, Avgas weighed ~6 lbs/Gal, but Avgas is no longer and 100LL weighs less and why modern Mooney POH's now say to use 5.82lbs/gal for 100LL But be careful, Mooney still uses or assumes the AVGAS weight in their documentation including the TCDS and POH when specifying unusable fuel weight. They only clarify with a note that says use 5.83 Lb/Gal with 100LL but otherwise pretty much uses or assumes 6lb/gal when they give weight numbers for fuel in both POH & TCDS. Of course such details are only of importance to owners/pilots wanting to get as much legal useful load as possible out of their airframes. 1 1 Quote
Igor_U Posted June 22, 2022 Report Posted June 22, 2022 1967 M20F with some J mods (windshield, gaps, windows etc…): 2740 MTOW, just short of 1690 empty weight and 1050+ useful load. Payload is 666lb with 64 gal fuel. Quote
larrynimmo Posted June 22, 2022 Report Posted June 22, 2022 My 1981 M20J with updated electronics (but old heavy Century 41 AP) have 917.6# useful load. it is my expectation, if I were to weigh the plane I would get up to about 930# of useful load, as lots of the upgrades never got calculated. Quote
ArtVandelay Posted June 22, 2022 Report Posted June 22, 2022 26 minutes ago, JohnZ said: The scales don’t lie though. They do if the AP didn’t weigh it correctly. And most don’t. currently 999lbs, will gain about 15+lbs with next avionics upgrade. 1 Quote
Ragsf15e Posted June 22, 2022 Report Posted June 22, 2022 11 hours ago, amillet said: @kortopates posted this in 2020: AVGAS <> 100LL, Avgas weighed ~6 lbs/Gal, but Avgas is no longer and 100LL weighs less and why modern Mooney POH's now say to use 5.82lbs/gal for 100LL But be careful, Mooney still uses or assumes the AVGAS weight in their documentation including the TCDS and POH when specifying unusable fuel weight. They only clarify with a note that says use 5.83 Lb/Gal with 100LL but otherwise pretty much uses or assumes 6lb/gal when they give weight numbers for fuel in both POH & TCDS. Of course such details are only of importance to owners/pilots wanting to get as much legal useful load as possible out of their airframes. Took me a while to find a good resource documenting only 100ll, not “avgas”, but I finally found an AOPA page showing that it weighs 5.56lbs/gallon at 40c (104f) to 6.3lbs/gal at -40c (-40f). Ill stick with 6lbs/gal for my math, but it appears 5.8 might be ok too. Quote
Hank Posted June 22, 2022 Report Posted June 22, 2022 26 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said: Took me a while to find a good resource documenting only 100ll, not “avgas”, but I finally found an AOPA page showing that it weighs 5.56lbs/gallon at 40c (104f) to 6.3lbs/gal at -40c (-40f). Ill stick with 6lbs/gal for my math, but it appears 5.8 might be ok too. I operate in the upper half of that temperature range, so definitely less than 6 lb/gal. But it's easier to do in my head . . . 1 Quote
MikeOH Posted June 22, 2022 Report Posted June 22, 2022 Let’s see, 0.2 lb times 64 gal equals 12.8 lbs. How accurate is your useful load number?? This is in the measure with a micrometer cut with an axe category, IMHO. 1 Quote
carusoam Posted June 22, 2022 Report Posted June 22, 2022 M20R POH uses 5.82LBs/g for 100LL… -a- Quote
Hank Posted June 22, 2022 Report Posted June 22, 2022 1 hour ago, MikeOH said: Let’s see, 0.2 lb times 64 gal equals 12.8 lbs. How accurate is your useful load number?? This is in the measure with a micrometer cut with an axe category, IMHO. You left out "mark with chalk"! But the sentiment is accurate. For me, 52 gal x 0.2 lb/gal "savings" = 10.4 lb, or the hatrack contents. For those with 130 gal tanks, it's 26 lb, or enough to notice. That's almost 30 minutes fuel for me. But some people enjoy splitting hairs . . . . Quote
highflyer77 Posted July 7 Report Posted July 7 Hi folks, getting this up again: I bought my M20E, a nice '64 #341 last autumn. In general, I am quite happy at all (otherwise I would have bought a other plane ;-) ), but my useful load is somewhat limited. Before the aircraft was sold to me, a new w&b was done in France: 803kgs./1.770 lbs. empty weight, empty c.g. 48,03 in. I was quite sure that they did a mistake when doing this w&b, so I did a new one here in Austria a few days ago with an Austrian A&P. Outcome was 801,6 kgs./1.767 lbs., but empty c.g. shifted foreward to 46,77 in. Still I am wondering about the empty weight - we drained all tanks and thoroughly emptied the plane :-) ! My M20E has literally all speed mod´s available, GTN650, KX155, ASPEN 1000, Century IIB autopilot, Monroy L/R tanks. On the other side wheelen led landing light, lightweight starter, concorde battery. I am still missing about 100 lbs. of useful load ;-) ! Quote
ArtVandelay Posted July 7 Report Posted July 7 Hi folks, getting this up again: I bought my M20E, a nice '64 #341 last autumn. In general, I am quite happy at all (otherwise I would have bought a other plane ;-) ), but my useful load is somewhat limited. Before the aircraft was sold to me, a new w&b was done in France: 803kgs./1.770 lbs. empty weight, empty c.g. 48,03 in. I was quite sure that they did a mistake when doing this w&b, so I did a new one here in Austria a few days ago with an Austrian A&P. Outcome was 801,6 kgs./1.767 lbs., but empty c.g. shifted foreward to 46,77 in. Still I am wondering about the empty weight - we drained all tanks and thoroughly emptied the plane :-) ! My M20E has literally all speed mod´s available, GTN650, KX155, ASPEN 1000, Century IIB autopilot, Monroy L/R tanks. On the other side wheelen led landing light, lightweight starter, concorde battery. I am still missing about 100 lbs. of useful load ;-) ! Did they follow the procedure (level the plane, put seats in proper positions, etc)?Those speed mods will add weight, so will a paint job if they don’t strip the old paint. Quote
highflyer77 Posted July 7 Report Posted July 7 Everything was done properly (I was with the A&P all the time - fuel was drained completely, aircraft was levelled as ordered by the weighing instructions etc.) - therefore the CG moved foreward by more than an inch... I am just wondering what could be the "fat" on my M20E ... does anybody know the weight gain (either part for part or accumulated) for the speed mod´s ? I cannot imagine that from a roughly 1.000 lbs. payload only 800 will be left ;-) ! Quote
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