Cheaper generator for electric preheater? $158 from Home Depot; will this work?

[tigers2007]

I don't endorse this product as I don't know much about it but here is a ready-to-use 4G solution: http://switchboxcontrol.com/the-switch-box/

20% off rebate here

So $240 net cost. Not bad versus the $100+ solutions on Amazon and then fumble-farting with soldering crap together.

**UPDATE** Might want to contact the company and see if they'll honor new orders as the rebate appears to have expired last week. 

[carusoam]

You may find a few reviews on the SwitchBox...

The early SBs had inherent quality issues with respect to current load carrying parts...  a fire safety issue around some expensive planes...

Other than that...

It worked really well. Turn it on in advance. Drive to the airport...  engine is warm as expected...

If plans change, turn it off...

The other hassle was the change from 2G to 3G to 4G to 5G....  if you have an aging 2G device, you need a matching 2G service/antenna close by to work...

The SwitchBox company was/is(?) an MSer for a while... He did a great job with the customer service aspects...

IOWs... I was able to use my cell phone to turn the engine heat on and off pretty easily for a few years...

If the Box itself was updated to better handle the loads... and better handle the inevitable overloads.... That would be great to hear!

People have started pre-heating cabins as well as there engine(s)... that can be a lot of current running through a soldered strip...

PP thoughts only, not an electrical engineer...

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

I don't endorse this product as I don't know much about it but here is a ready-to-use 4G solution: http://switchboxcontrol.com/the-switch-box/
20% off rebate here
So $240 net cost. Not bad versus the $100+ solutions on Amazon and then fumble-farting with soldering crap together.
**UPDATE** Might want to contact the company and see if they'll honor new orders as the rebate appears to have expired last week. 

I have pictures of the inside of a SwitchBox if you want to see their quality. Might surprise you. They use the same circuitry that the Amazon boxes use. The Amazon boxes are Chinese made. I tracked their manufacturer down to one company who does make legitimate electronics. It’s when you modify a design without using approved methods that issues arise.


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[tigers2007]

Send it; I’d like to see this. I see there is a $135 one on Amazon right now that looks identical but without the plug pigtails. One of the reviews suggest using a 12V triggered IoT strip to control anything with dangerous amounts of electricity. The $26.95 digital loggers brand “IoT Power Relay” is what’s recommended.

[Marauder]

Send it; I’d like to see this. I see there is a $135 one on Amazon right now that looks identical but without the plug pigtails. One of the reviews suggest using a 12V triggered IoT strip to control anything with dangerous amounts of electricity. The $26.95 digital loggers brand “IoT Power Relay” is what’s recommended.

 

I will find the thread where I reported the SwitchBox issues. I WAS a customer but once I saw what was inside, I stopped using it. I don’t know if any of the ones out there have UL, CSA types of certifications. The CE certification is a step up from nothing but I don’t consider it to be a fully tested solution.

 

I use the GSM version to operate the Reid Turbo unit I have. That is about 5.7 amp draw and the GSM box has a 10 amp inline fuse inside protecting it.

 

In addition I use an IoT relay to manage the power to a ceramic heater. I use an old power cell phone power supply to trigger it.

 

 

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[Marauder]

16 hours ago, tigers2007 said:

Send it; I’d like to see this. I see there is a $135 one on Amazon right now that looks identical but without the plug pigtails. One of the reviews suggest using a 12V triggered IoT strip to control anything with dangerous amounts of electricity. The $26.95 digital loggers brand “IoT Power Relay” is what’s recommended.

 

Go to the January 13, 2017 post by me in this thread to see what I meant by the over-soldering: https://mooneyspace.com/topic/17264-pirep-of-andoer-wireless-mobile-cell-phone-pda-gsm-remote-control-3-socket-power-outlet-smart-switch/?page=4

Those heavy looking solder traces are their attempt to beef up the load carrying traces. Not the correct way to do that and could lead to a fire hazard.

Ratherbeflying turned me onto the IoT relay. It is the right way to make sure you don’t draw too much juice from the GSM remote switch.

 

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Edited March 4, 2019 by Marauder

[Marauder]

It was tough reading through that thread... I think about Houman when I see that Andoer switch in my hangar. Hope his son fully recovered.


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[mooniac15u]

On 3/2/2019 at 9:25 PM, 65eTurbo said:

What you want to avoid is a combination of high temperature and moisture.   Cold hangar air will dry out when heated, so all winter heat should be fine unless you get a warm wet day in the hangar.  That said, I'm not leaving my heater on.

Cold air does not dry out when heated.  That's a common misconception.  We measure the moisture content of air as relative humidity.  Colder air can hold less moisture than warm air so the same amount of moisture is measured as a lower relative humidity in warmer air.  If you heat cold air the same amount of moisture is present it just results in a lower relative humidity because you are changing the actual value of 100% that it is measured against.

[tigers2007]

Wow checkout this future-proof setup. I wonder who buys these by the pallet? Gives me chills just looking at the photo.

 

 

[65eTurbo]

26 minutes ago, mooniac15u said:

Cold air does not dry out when heated.  That's a common misconception.  We measure the moisture content of air as relative humidity.  Colder air can hold less moisture than warm air so the same amount of moisture is measured as a lower relative humidity in warmer air.  If you heat cold air the same amount of moisture is present it just results in a lower relative humidity because you are changing the actual value of 100% that it is measured against.

Apologies for the imprecision of the language.  I meant "dry out" on a relative humidity basis.  What one cares about in an engine is the relative humidity or, do be even more precise, the dew point of the air relative to the temperature of any of the internal metal parts.  I think I just answered why one doesn't leave an engine heater on!  It keeps much of the engine warm but any cold edges of the engine might get below the dew point and promote condensation and corrosion.

[Marauder]

1 hour ago, tigers2007 said:

Wow checkout this future-proof setup. I wonder who buys these by the pallet? Gives me chills just looking at the photo.

 

 

What! You never seen one of these before? I bought this relay board thinking I could fix the SwitchBox until one of our EEs said "why would fix something that could burn down your hangar?"

[tigers2007]

You're probably on a terrorist watchlist now...

[larryb]

Cold air does not dry out when heated.  That's a common misconception.  We measure the moisture content of air as relative humidity.  Colder air can hold less moisture than warm air so the same amount of moisture is measured as a lower relative humidity in warmer air.  If you heat cold air the same amount of moisture is present it just results in a lower relative humidity because you are changing the actual value of 100% that it is measured against.

That is true and it is also what we want. Moisture on the surface of the metal is causes corrosion. Moisture absorbed in the air is not available for corrosion. Driving down RH is a benefit whether done by heating or a de-humidifier.

[ArtVandelay]

So I bought subject generator...bottom line...it’s no Honda.

You have to prime it? I haven’t seen a motor that was designed in the last 40 years that had to be primed.

I tried Economy mode, which resulted in it stop generating after a few minutes...guess that’s one way to improve the economy?
Turned that off and it seems to work now, although not as quiet or as smooth as a Honda, it kinda surges.

My Honda is in the shop, after 7 years and a few thousand hours it’s fuel system needs work. I live on a boat, so I use a generator almost daily. Hopefully this lasts a week or two I need it for.


Tom

[Ricky_231]

2 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

So I bought subject generator...bottom line...it’s no Honda.

You have to prime it? I haven’t seen a motor that was designed in the last 40 years that had to be primed.

I tried Economy mode, which resulted in it stop generating after a few minutes...guess that’s one way to improve the economy?
Turned that off and it seems to work now, although not as quiet or as smooth as a Honda, it kinda surges.

My Honda is in the shop, after 7 years and a few thousand hours it’s fuel system needs work. I live on a boat, so I use a generator almost daily. Hopefully this lasts a week or two I need it for.


Tom

Model/How much did it cost? Also - can you leave it on for a few hours connected to a preheater? I'm looking to buy a cheap one too (not in the mood to spend $1500 on a generator I'll use 4 times a year) and hook it up to one of those remote switches.

[neilpilot]

19 minutes ago, Ricky_231 said:

Model/How much did it cost? Also - can you leave it on for a few hours connected to a preheater? I'm looking to buy a cheap one too (not in the mood to spend $1500 on a generator I'll use 4 times a year) and hook it up to one of those remote switches.

The generator in question is indeed cheap.  I've owned it a few times and have used it at home, not for preheat.  However, so long as the preheater does not exceed the generator's capacity it will work.  

However, it requires a manual start.  No way to use this with a remote switch unless you design an advanced robotic machine to handle priming and pull start procedures.

[Marauder]

So I bought subject generator...bottom line...it’s no Honda.

You have to prime it? I haven’t seen a motor that was designed in the last 40 years that had to be primed.

I tried Economy mode, which resulted in it stop generating after a few minutes...guess that’s one way to improve the economy?
Turned that off and it seems to work now, although not as quiet or as smooth as a Honda, it kinda surges.

My Honda is in the shop, after 7 years and a few thousand hours it’s fuel system needs work. I live on a boat, so I use a generator almost daily. Hopefully this lasts a week or two I need it for.


Tom

I suspect their quality control leaves something to be desired. I seem to recall one or two had issues with them out of the box. For the rest of us, they worked fine.

I’ve used mine for a couple of seasons and it keeps on working fine. For $149 and I think 27 pounds, it was the cheapest and lightest inverter generator I could fine. I too have a Yahama for other use. The Sportsman certainly isn’t a Honda or Yahama but at $149 compared to the 1000W equivalent Yahama priced at $863, it’s a deal.

One thing I have been real careful about is the fuel. Any ethanol fuels will cause those cheap carbs issues. I have been running mine on AvGas. And instead of leaving it full of fuel in the plane, I use one of these to suck out a gallon from my tanks.


https://www.pepboys.com/hopkins-flotool-shaker-siphon-pump/product/8977472?quantity=1


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[ArtVandelay]

Model/How much did it cost? Also - can you leave it on for a few hours connected to a preheater? I'm looking to buy a cheap one too (not in the mood to spend $1500 on a generator I'll use 4 times a year) and hook it up to one of those remote switches.

The 800/1000W 4 stroke model, is $179 at the moment. There are more powerful and cheaper models (2 stroke engines), if only using it on occasion might be the better choice. I’ll probably use mine more in the next week than others have used it all year.
Better find out how many watts you need first.


Tom

[Marauder]

Model/How much did it cost? Also - can you leave it on for a few hours connected to a preheater? I'm looking to buy a cheap one too (not in the mood to spend $1500 on a generator I'll use 4 times a year) and hook it up to one of those remote switches.

I have the Reiff Turbo pre-heater. I think it is rated to draw 700W and I have used the Sportsman a number of times to run the pre-heater while the plane sits on the ramp in the tundra. At more open airports, I run one of those bike locks through the handle and attach it to the Lasar tail hook. Yeah, it’s a $150 generator but why risk losing my membership in the Cheap Bast$#d Club?

It is a manual start, so you won’t be able to start it remotely. If I am at a remote airport, I either will try to get one of the line guys to start it for me or come early to the airport, start it up and have a 2 hour breakfast. Make sure you have a good cowl cover to make the heating more efficient.


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[Ricky_231]

59 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

The 800/1000W 4 stroke model, is $179 at the moment. There are more powerful and cheaper models (2 stroke engines), if only using it on occasion might be the better choice. I’ll probably use mine more in the next week than others have used it all year.
Better find out how many watts you need first.


Tom

I've a Tanis pre-heater - Tanis' website says it draws 460W. So let's assume 500W, and that I'll need an 800W cheap generator to actually get 500W.

 

50 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

I have the Reiff Turbo pre-heater. I think it is rated to draw 700W and I have used the Sportsman a number of times to run the pre-heater while the plane sits on the ramp in the tundra. At more open airports, I run one of those bike locks through the handle and attach it to the Lasar tail hook. Yeah, it’s a $150 generator but why risk losing my membership in the Cheap Bast$#d Club?

It is a manual start, so you won’t be able to start it remotely. If I am at a remote airport, I either will try to get one of the line guys to start it for me or come early to the airport, start it up and have a 2 hour breakfast. Make sure you have a good cowl cover to make the heating more efficient.


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Hm - I guess I could leave it plugged in and ask someone at the FBO/ramp to turn it on in exchange for a nice tip. Unfortunately according to the manual, it takes at least 4 hours to get from whatever will be  happening this week (low 20s) to a cozy 40F. So I guess I'll be having a long drawn out brunch instead :-) 

 

[Ricky_231]

1 hour ago, neilpilot said:

However, it requires a manual start.  No way to use this with a remote switch unless you design an advanced robotic machine to handle priming and pull start procedures.

If only I had that sort of skill or will. Could also design a giant robot arm to rub the belly of the airplane until it's warm :-)

[Hank]

13 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

You have to prime it? I haven’t seen a motor that was designed in the last 40 years that had to be primed.

My Stihl weedeater, c. 2010, has a primer bulb to push before starting. So did the two consecutive "other brand" weedeaters it followed (one was Ryobi). My leafblower, Poulan Pro, new last Christmas, has a primer bulb. My old generator (~10 years old? 15?) has a primer bulb to push . . . . My John Deere just has a choke, but it cost more than all of these others combined.

Where you been living, Art????

Edited December 18, 2019 by Hank

[ArtVandelay]

My Stihl weedeater, c. 2010, has a primer bulb to push before starting. So did the two consecutive "other brand" weedeaters it followed (one was Ryobi). My leafblower, Poulan Pro, new last Christmas, has a primer bulb. My old generator (~10 years old? 15?) has a primer bulb to push . . . . My John Deere just has a choke, but it cost more than all of these others combined.
Where you been living, Art????

In the 21st century and I don’t have any lawn equipment.


Tom

[carusoam]

Tom,

got a pic of the boat?

Every now and then we see pics of what other MSers have in the other garage/hangar/yacht yard....

Best regards,

-a-

[ArtVandelay]

Tom,

got a pic of the boat?

Every now and then we see pics of what other MSers have in the other garage/hangar/yacht yard....

In the Bahamas....

 

And short video....

 

 

 

Tom