160TAS at 0AGL

[aviatoreb]

I just rode a high speed rail today from downtown Milan to downtown Rome. 296-297kph almost the whole way in silent comfort in large chairs.  Security is a breeze- just step on the train and go.  And when you get there - you are THERE in downtown.  You slide along silently at 160TAS (knots) with BIG windows watching the country side just whisk pass.

Too bad we don't have this in the US, at least on the coasts.

[SamB]

Airplanes are great but trains are a fantastic way to get around.  They can be incredibly efficient, too.

[kortopates]

Yep, even in China at upto 320 kph  with electric outlets at your seat and very inexpensive. Although not quite all over yet, it does span most of the country - which is huge! We seems to be a long ways off here. But even on the coasts, I think we may lack the density to make it work successfully here. 

Edited December 2, 2016 by kortopates

[jetdriven]

I'm never giving up my turbo BMW but the high-speed trains in Europe really are cool and compared to driving in the states I think even better

[MooneyBob]

Trust me, many, many, many, many Chinese and European people would love to drive their own car. Not to mention own plane.

The neighbor's grass is alway greener.

[jetdriven]

Id Love to have the option to take the train l. When I lived on the East Coast last summer I took the train up to New York a couple times to go to work and it was relaxing, sit just surf the Internet and look out the window instead of tearing my hair out on the New Jersey Turnpike...back here in Texas if you ain't got a car you ain't got nothing

[bonal]

California and it's infamous governor Moonbeam are moving forward on a high speed rail to run from somewhere in the Bay Area to somewhere in the LA area. Let's watch and see how many billions over budget and behind schedule this cash cow grows to be. Also the vast majority of taxpayers will not be able to benefit since its excludes easy access if you don't live near by not to mention the many cities and towns that will be disrupted that the train won't even make stops in. Eminent domain is also going to force people to give up property for the "common good" and for that matter why would I pay over twice the cost of an airline to ride a train for three hours rather than take a 45 minute flight.  

[aviatoreb]

2 hours ago, bonal said:

California and it's infamous governor Moonbeam are moving forward on a high speed rail to run from somewhere in the Bay Area to somewhere in the LA area. Let's watch and see how many billions over budget and behind schedule this cash cow grows to be. Also the vast majority of taxpayers will not be able to benefit since its excludes easy access if you don't live near by not to mention the many cities and towns that will be disrupted that the train won't even make stops in. Eminent domain is also going to force people to give up property for the "common good" and for that matter why would I pay over twice the cost of an airline to ride a train for three hours rather than take a 45 minute flight.  

that 45 min flight will take longer with all the overhead / security gates / arriving early / boarding time.   door-door you will be faster on that train.

[aviatoreb]

46 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

London to Amsterdam door to door by train= 5 hours.  

London to Amsterdam door to door by commercial plane = 8 hours.

London to Amsterdam dooor to door by Private plane = 2.5 hours. 

Without the Private plane the train is quicker as you have to get do all the security checks, collect baggage etc.   

Paris for example is 2:30 from Kings Cross which takes you from the centre of London to the Centre of Paris.  While Commerical plane takes from you from the Middle of nowhere (formerly called Heathrow) to an airport at least an hour away from the centre of Paris.  

Trains are faster as long as the security checks don't arrive.  If they do it will kill train travel. 

That's pretty much it.

Is that a high speed train?  That is a bit longer than I would have guessed.  Google says 2.5 hours by train.

I'm keeping my airplane!  But sometimes weather or what not does not permit.  Or like now, I don't have my plane with me in Europe.

Byron - sure your car can go 160TAS - but you aren't allowed to....  and even if you were - it aint pretty - ever driven in Germany?  I once rented a car and I was so exited to drive around at 110 miles per hour.  And I did! But yikes - I don't think I will rent a car again - too scary!  You go from crazy crazy fast passing in the left lane at 40-50-60mph faster than the lories on your right - and then now and then a real speed demon - a porche or whetever comes up behind you so fast you are waiting for the sonic boom to catch up.  Then bam - you come up on stopped traffic so fast you need to be really quick with your reactions to stop safely.  Then several miles of stand still traffic.  Then back up to 110mph.  So average speed on the autobahn is no where near unlimited and you get to where you going frazzled (but fun to do once!).

[XXX]

4 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

This is true, I find my driver is always insisting on doing the driving.  Damn cheek of it.  

I always enjoy reading those quirky English expressions from Andrew. This one left me stumped so I was able to find this translation for us English, er American speaking fellows from  across the pond:

[singular/uncountable] behaviour that is rude or does not show respect, especially towards someone who is older or more important. I've had enough of your cheek. have the cheek to do something: He had the cheek to suggest that I should be the one to apologize!

[XXX]

Those high speed trains have always amazed me. That's a lot of mass to get going that fast. Saw a program on TV about this new hyper loop. Looks promising and a top speed of 620 mph? Amazing!

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-35361093

[XXX]

Just now, Hyett6420 said:

The are fascinating BUT I am continuously amazed how the travelling public don't see that there is any risk involved at travelling at that speed.   When there is an accident they express shock and horror that it all went wrong. 

To be honest, I think I would be a tad bit terrified to ride the high speed rail. Seems it would be more thrilling than an E ticket ride at Disneyworld. 

[smccray]

18 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

One day you guys will catch up with us backward europeans.   

Have the brits caught up to the French yet? The last time I took the Chunnel train we went three times as fast in frog land.

[smccray]

1 hour ago, Hyett6420 said:

No but we are damn good at  inventing things like the Internet thing you are using.   

However you must have used the Eurostar a long time ago as it now goes the same speed over in the U.K. As in France.  

Yes- it has been a few years

... and we all know Al Gore invented the internet!!!

Edited December 3, 2016 by smccray

[flyboy0681]

Over the summer we spent a few days in Oslo and took the train from the airport to downtown. While flying along I fired up the Garmin pilot and saw 149kts. While it wasn't cheap at  $22.00/pp, it was still better than a cab, which had a fixed price of around $100.00

Last year we took Eurostar from St Pancreas (sic) station to Paris and  was blown away by the speed compared to the few other times that we flew., which begs the question, why would anybody fly to Paris anymore?

Train service like these will never be built in the US for a number of reasons. First is the lack of a right-of-way in major metropolitan areas, unless it's built on top of existing tracks, and alas, tree huggers.

[flyboy0681]

4 minutes ago, smccray said:

... and we all know Al Gore invented the internet!!!

One of the most overblown "quotes" of the last 25 years. Just to set the record straight, most of us old timers in IT know as a fact that Gore was championing opening up the various government networks (ARPANET and Interagency Networks, for example) for private use as early as the 1970's.

Just for the record, Gore never said that he "invented" the Internet and you will never find that quote anywhere. During an interview with Wolf Blitzer many years ago he said that he proposed legislation in the 1980's which "led to the creation" of the what we call today the Internet. That's all the other party needed to hear and from that day forward we have "Al Gore claims he invented the Internet."

A few months after the "Gore invented the Internet" story took off, one of my IT heroes, Robert Kahn (father of the TCP/IP protocol), wrote that Gore's legislation in 1991 paved the way for what we now know as the World Wide Web. Without his political support, it may never have progressed beyond a method of government and educational agencies communicating with each other.

[flyboy0681]

9 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

St Pancras.   

Now if you go one stop up on the Metro on the Piccadilly Line to Caledonian  Road  station. Exit the station, turn left and walk to Hartham Road (2nd road in the left about 5 mins walk) and you will be at my house. Yay. 

I forgot to mention that the trip to do in Norway is "Norway in a Nutshell ". Do it in the winter. You leave Oslo station on Saturday Morning, go up to the to top of their highest mountain, then catch a vernacular railway down to the fjord. Catch a boat that takes you down the fjord with mountains 8000 ft high either side and water the same depth all the way to Bergen. Stay overnight in Bergen.  The next day before you fly home catch the cable car to the top of Bergen have a hot chocolate with cognac.  Catch your plane home.  Idyllic. 

My way of adding humour, which is why I inserted (sic).

While I loved Oslo, I don't see myself returning anytime soon until the exchange rate is more favorable. While walking down the street in a residential neighborhood, I poked my head in a McDonald's just out of curiosity. A Big Mac sandwich alone, no fries (chips to you) or drink was the equivalent of $13.00 or £10.25.

[Andy95W]

17 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

One of the most overblown "quotes" of the last 25 years. Just to set the record straight, most of us old timers in IT know as a fact that Gore was championing opening up the various government networks (ARPANET and Interagency Networks, for example) for private use as early as the 1970's.

Just for the record, Gore never said that he "invented" the Internet and you will never find that quote anywhere. During an interview with Wolf Blitzer many years ago he said that he proposed legislation in the 1980's which "led to the creation" of the what we call today the Internet. That's all the other party needed to hear and from that day forward we have "Al Gore claims he invented the Internet."

A few months after the "Gore invented the Internet" story took off, one of my IT heroes, Robert Kahn (father of the TCP/IP protocol), wrote that Gore's legislation in 1991 paved the way for what we now know as the World Wide Web. Without his political support, it may never have progressed beyond a method of government and educational agencies communicating with each other.

Now, why do you wanna go ruining a good story with silly things like facts?

[flyboy0681]

9 minutes ago, N1395W said:

Now, why do you wanna go ruining a good story with silly things like facts?

Silly me. 

[Cyril Gibb]

1 hour ago, Hyett6420 said:

St Pancras.   

 The next day before you fly home catch the cable car to the top of Bergen have a hot chocolate with cognac.  Catch your plane home.  Idyllic. 

Since you brought up refreshments, assume before you hop on the train in St. Pancras, you grab Champagne and oysters at Searcys?  Another example of the antithesis of European train travel and accoutrements vs. North America.

[flyboy0681]

Just now, Cyril Gibb said:

Since you brought up refreshments, assume before you hop on the train in St. Pancras, you grab Champagne and oysters at Searcys?  Another example of the antithesis of European train travel and accoutrements vs. North America.

You can do the same on AMTRAK, but instead of oysters it would be a package of Dorito's from a vending machine. The good thing about that is that nobody will be sitting next to you.

[Guest]

On December 2, 2016 at 8:08 PM, jetdriven said:

Id Love to have the option to take the train l. When I lived on the East Coast last summer I took the train up to New York a couple times to go to work and it was relaxing, sit just surf the Internet and look out the window instead of tearing my hair out on the New Jersey Turnpike...back here in Texas if you ain't got a car you ain't got nothing

I thought Texas was the pickup truck state?

Clarence

[bonal]

19 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

that 45 min flight will take longer with all the overhead / security gates / arriving early / boarding time.   door-door you will be faster on that train.

Don't be surprised if they implement the same type of security for the high speed rail it will only take one terrorist attack. I'll give you the boarding time though. I'm really curious how they are going to maintain that speed crossing the Grape Vine.  but as I said before this train will be of little use to most residents of the state that will be forced to pay for it. Also read somewhere that the ticket cost is  going to be something around 300 dollars. As for the airport delays that depends on which airport you fly out of up north Sacramento or Oakland don't have much delay SFO does add more time.  And another question I don't know the answer to is how many stops inrout will be made and of course these will add time.

[Jeff_S]

I got to experience the granddaddy of them all in Europe, riding the TGV while living in France as a college student. It's slow now by many standards, but still fun to see the countryside whizzing by. But to be accurate, you are at least 5' AGL or perhaps a bit more. 0' AGL would create quite the "shower of sparks!"

[aviatoreb]

14 hours ago, flyboy0681 said:

Over the summer we spent a few days in Oslo and took the train from the airport to downtown. While flying along I fired up the Garmin pilot and saw 149kts. While it wasn't cheap at  $22.00/pp, it was still better than a cab, which had a fixed price of around $100.00

Last year we took Eurostar from St Pancreas (sic) station to Paris and  was blown away by the speed compared to the few other times that we flew., which begs the question, why would anybody fly to Paris anymore?

Train service like these will never be built in the US for a number of reasons. First is the lack of a right-of-way in major metropolitan areas, unless it's built on top of existing tracks, and alas, tree huggers.

right of way - what about the big dig?  the car tunnel under boston?

 

the amazing thing about modern high speed trains is they are so ver smooth and relaxing.

you don't need to reserve a flight / just show up at the train station and between large cities there were trains every 20 min.  very civilized.

cars are good for 50-75 mi or less.  they are very annoying for many hundreds of miles.

modern trains are good for many hundreds of miles.  (but if ya gotta mooney then that's what i'm doing)!!

airlines for when the travel stretches into the thousands of miles.  (well if ya got a gulfstream... well i don't so never mind).