Help!! Is my autopilot down? Oxygen bottle bad?

[Tankinbarber]

So I took N5808F to ABQ last weekend for the balloon festival. First off let me start by saying 17,500 ft at 230 GS was awesome! I loaded up with o2 at home and made it to abq from vgt in 2.1 hours. I went through 1000psi of o2 with just my wife and I. Autopilot worked great on the way to ABQ. I loaded O2 in ABQ to fly home and headed to 16,500 ft. I leveled out at my planned altitude to find the auto pilot would not engage. I hit the trim test button and it appeared to light all the options on the autopilot but would not give me any feedback when pressing the FD, ALT, or Nav buttons. I pulled the circuit breaker and reset the trim again but still no fix. I continued to try it along the route but no joy! Also, half way through the Grand Canyon area I notice my O2 down to 500 PSI. The flight back was 2.8 due to head wind. I am thinking my o2 bottle has a leak????

 

Anyone have some experience with these issues?

[Marauder]

Not sure which AP you have, but I would run the full AP checklist for it. My STEC has a pre-flight checklist and I have a troubleshooting tree for it. I would start there. It might be something like a seating problem of the controller.

As for the O2, it doesn't take much to blow through O2 if it is set wrong. My wife once had her set oxymiser set for max flow even though we were at 8k. Burned through a lot on that flight.

I would suspect a leaking fitting before I suspected the tank.


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[kortopates]

"I am thinking my o2 bottle has a leak????" Very unlikely, but there could be a leak elsewhere. First off you have to tell us about what kind of O2 system you have as well as what kind of equipment you are using to connect to it for breathing. Just seeing you have a rocket doesn't tell us if you are using a portable or built-in, it's bottle size, whether you are using a flow meter, cannula's etc.

Ditto on the AP? the year of your airframe would be helpful too.

[KLRDMD]

Just now, kortopates said:

Just seeing you have a rocket doesn't tell us if you are using a portable or built-in, it's bottle size, whether you are using a flow meter, cannula's etc. the year of your airframe would be helpful too.

N5808F shows as a 1985 so a converted 231 and should have built in oxygen and a KFC-150.

[carusoam]

In that case...

The KFC has a full test of all the bits and pieces when activated.  Count the beeps. The missing beep will indicate what it isn't sensing.  The manual covers the details...

You might forget to turn the trim on.  Subtle indication when the AP doesn't work.

Tanks don't usually leak, but every piece of plumbing downstream has the ability to leak. The systems are not that complex.  They are relatively easy to test on the ground.

just be aware, leaking O2 in closed places can cause other materials to be very flammable.

Best regards,

-a-

[Tankinbarber]

Thanks! My masks have a gauge and I recall the gauge represented o2 at FL240. I don't see a way to reduce it on the mask but will try to take a picture this weekend. It could be excessive o2 and not a leak. I appreciate the feedback. as for the autopilot I will run the test and see what feedback I get. Wil report again in a couple of days.

[Zwaustin]

My KFC200 is 6 beeps for test.... As for O2 I have used mine 8 hours with two adults and a child and still had 500psi left on oxy saver cannulas around FL170... Tank size is 1800psi and 77cu ft ... You may have a leak at a fitting somewhere or someone turned their valve all the way up and wasted some air. Butttt....Above you say you don't have a way to adjust flow on mask so not sure which set up you have. On each hose I have a pressure control valve that has full adjustability Regardless if mask or cannula is attached. 

[Tankinbarber]

Just now, Zwaustin said:

My KFC200 is 6 beeps for test.... As for O2 I have used mine 8 hours with two adults and a child and still had 500psi left on oxy saver cannulas ... Tank size is 1800psi and 77cu ft ... You may have a leak at a fitting somewhere. Unless someone turned their valve all the way up and wasted some air. 

The valve is what I am not finding and will provide a pic of the mask.

[carqwik]

Leave your O2 on with nothing attached to any of the O2 fittings.  If the O2 tank drains, you probably have a leak in the control valve (not sure what it's called exactly).  I had that same experience and we found the leak was in the valve itself.  Even if the O2 is turned on, it shouldn't lose O2 if nothing is drawing against it.

[Zwaustin]

I have a 79k so my built in O2 was not factory. For what it is worth this is what the skyox style fitting looks like with regulator valve. 

[carusoam]

And remember, oils and greases are not used to lubricate the system.  O2 and grease are highly chemically reactive resulting in flames.

The mountain high website had some interesting reading for those that want to learn about O2 systems...

Best regards,

-a-

[thinwing]

Sounds like he doesn't have a way to adjust flow down...so flow is coming straight out of fitting at same pressure as supplied by tank regulator...My 104 cu ft is good for 2 people 3 hr 5 legs...say 30 man hours using oxymizer cannula or 20 man hours oxymizer mask scale

[kortopates]

2 hours ago, Tankinbarber said:

The valve is what I am not finding and will provide a pic of the mask.

If you don't have a flow meter attached in front of the cannula or mask you'll be running through O2 very quickly. What you may need is an A4 or preferably the A5 from PreciseFlight since its the best at about the same cost - see  https://www.preciseflight.com/general-aviation/shop/product/-5-flow-meter-all-one-solo-pack/

Every breathing station needs one.

You can't tell from Zwaustin's photo is there is a meter downstream to use to adjust flow rate but without one I don't see can you set a specific flow rate for altitude or even spot check if its in the ball park. Unless I am missing something it doesn't look like a safe set up to me. The FARs require you to be able to at least verify O2 is flowing with a visible flow indicator but I personally feel that alone is insufficient and IMO you need to be able to instantly verify the flow rate as well. Which is another reason why we need at least an A4 or A5 flow meter to verify and regulate O2

Edited October 6, 2016 by kortopates

[kortopates]

2 hours ago, carqwik said:

Leave your O2 on with nothing attached to any of the O2 fittings.  If the O2 tank drains, you probably have a leak in the control valve (not sure what it's called exactly).  I had that same experience and we found the leak was in the valve itself.  Even if the O2 is turned on, it shouldn't lose O2 if nothing is drawing against it.

It true that the ports are designed to hold pressure. But they are far from leak proof. In course of an ordinary flight of a few hours when you are only using 1 or 2 of the 4 ports, they will do there intended job fine. But you'll see significant leakage if you go away for the weekend, arrive at your destination and forget to turn off the O2. Our built-in Mooney Scott regulators on the bottle are two stage altitude compensating regulators. So if you left it on at Sea Level for the weekend you may not see a catastrophic lost, but if you leave it on all weekend say at a 7K altitude airport like Mammoth you'll be as bummed as I was to return to the plane with only a few hundred pounds left. (The other clue you will notice is its much harder to put the O2 fitting into the port when its pressurized.)

But I do think Carqwik statement is a very good reminder on the importance of not leaving your breathing devices plugged in while you leave your plane parked for the weekend. I would wager that probably a significant portion of the fleet has a small leak on the low pressure side because of the valve rigging doesn't entirely close the valve from the cockpit. So rather than 100% closed it may be 95+% closed. Because of that, I try to never leave any O2 breathing devices plugged in while the plane is parked to help reduce the net affect of any small leakage since the closed ports will help minimize any loss.

Edited October 6, 2016 by kortopates

[Tankinbarber]

This is the best site ever!!!! Thanks Guys!!!!

When the hell can we get a mooneyspace flyin?

[carusoam]

See who is organizing in your area.

Select a place to go.  Nice on-field restaurants are good.

post an invitation with a date a few weeks out.  Allow for adjustments

 

For ideas, use the search function.  201er has set up a few in and around NJ.

It takes a fair amount of comm skills to spread the word for everyone to be able to be in the right place at the right time.

Best regards,

-a-

[Tankinbarber]

I sent mooniac58 an email in regards to me being the VP of Casino Marketing at The Tropicana Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas. I am hoping we could do something here at a huge discounted rate to get everyone together. Maybe it could turn out to be a traveling annual reunion in different locations each year. Let see what he says.....

[carusoam]

Often, a few MSers are involved with setting up various training events.  It would be very helpful to have hotel skills for setting up these kind of things...

MAPA has PPP training.

Jolie has Right Seat training.  Often co-located with other pilot training.

Some ideas....

Best regards,

-a-