Roger O Posted June 25, 2016 Report Posted June 25, 2016 Hi everyone. As a former M20C with electric gear owner, I am once again in the market for a Mooney C or E. There are a lot of good looking C's and E's out there (and listed on the forum) for sale but they have manual gear. Problem is, I have a right shoulder with some torn ligaments, and decreased strength that might need surgery. Do you think that a manual gear is possible for me to handle or should I restrict my looking to electric gear only? Quote
neilpilot Posted June 25, 2016 Report Posted June 25, 2016 I've owned 2 vintage manual gear Mooneys. One required much more significant strength to retract than the other. So the answer is, if you have correct speed control on retraction, than I expect it will depend on how the gear is rigged and maintained on that specific aircraft. Quote
Jerry 5TJ Posted June 25, 2016 Report Posted June 25, 2016 Learn the "art" of floating gear up with slight turn and modest g unload. Nearly zero effort. Or find one with copilot brakes & fly from right side. 1 Quote
BDPetersen Posted June 25, 2016 Report Posted June 25, 2016 Proper rigging makes all the difference. But the weakness I personally have is in my hand strength and getting it unlatched. Even with a new down latch socket it's my nemesis. A touch of arthritis. The actual swing of the gear is fairly easy if timed correctly. 1 Quote
nels Posted June 26, 2016 Report Posted June 26, 2016 I've wondered how I could swing the gear if I had shoulder problems. Maybe if all is just right it would work for you but I think I would look for an electric gear plane. However, you might try it with someone as a copilot that can swing the gear for you and see if the motions bother your arm? Maybe you won't use those particular muscles? Quote
gsxrpilot Posted June 26, 2016 Report Posted June 26, 2016 I also have a bum right shoulder. And while I can't hardly get to anything in the back seat, I have no problem swinging the gear on my C. Of course it's properly rigged. If you're in the Austin, TX area, you're welcome to come try it out. It might also be for sale... Quote
carusoam Posted June 26, 2016 Report Posted June 26, 2016 Former M20C user... There are two indicated airspeeds that aid in gear retraction and extension... A slow one just after lift off is great for retraction. The amount of force required increases with air speed. A quicker one prior to entering the traffic pattern aids in putting them down. Too high a speed is not a good idea. This is what I used while flying an M20C. My first year was a real challenge. I would be accelerating without cleaning up the gear. I would come up off the chair trying to put the J-bar down... As far as physical strength goes. I am of ordinary pilot size. Good health, 175#s. It probably is important to try out what you are about to commit to. The other thing that is worth a try is moving the seat. Some pilots grab the center post to slide the seat forward. Or push off the back seat? All three of these motions may be a challenge for a bum shoulder. Search for the words tricep press ? (Good for testing / building strength for this motion) Best regards, -a- Quote
HRM Posted June 27, 2016 Report Posted June 27, 2016 On June 25, 2016 at 4:04 PM, Sherman18 said: Hi everyone. As a former M20C with electric gear owner, I am once again in the market for a Mooney C or E. There are a lot of good looking C's and E's out there (and listed on the forum) for sale but they have manual gear. Problem is, I have a right shoulder with some torn ligaments, and decreased strength that might need surgery. Do you think that a manual gear is possible for me to handle or should I restrict my looking to electric gear only? The reason I own the finest E left is because the PO could no longer get it up (or down for that matter). It's rigging is flawless (yes, I know that sounds like braggadocio, but it's true--trust me, i'm a pilot). I have stated that when I can no longer get it up (or down for that matter), I will fold my wings. Consider an electric gear Mooney. Quote
carusoam Posted June 27, 2016 Report Posted June 27, 2016 Harley, That is braggadocio of the finest kind! Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
jetdriven Posted June 27, 2016 Report Posted June 27, 2016 Just buy the electric gear airplane. I've flown plenty of both versions and I've yet to find a manual gear airplane that is as easy as unlatching the electric switch and lifting it up. You may hurt yourself even more with the Johnson bar then you can't fly your airplane. look I'm not bashing manual gear airplanes. But if you have previous injury then go easy on yourself. The electric airplanes are no more trouble nor more expensive to own. 2 Quote
gsxrpilot Posted June 27, 2016 Report Posted June 27, 2016 8 hours ago, jetdriven said: The electric airplanes are no more trouble nor more expensive to own. That statement is true only if you have no gear issues or failures. Fixing electric gear is certainly more expensive and troublesome than fixing manual gear. Of course with manual gear, there is almost nothing that could need fixing. My C was in for gear work just last week. The preload was off and failed the AD inspection. It cost $75 to put it right... at an MSC shop. Meanwhile two other electric gear Mooney's sit in the same shop waiting on many AMU's of parts and work to make the retraction mechanism work again. 2 Quote
Chocks Posted June 27, 2016 Report Posted June 27, 2016 And specifically, the gear motor alone is substantially more expensive than the entire manual gear system. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 Quote
jetdriven Posted June 27, 2016 Report Posted June 27, 2016 I don't find that to be true. The manual gear has bungee assist springs under the floor and that casting latch on the panel which wears out. Also, many of the manual gear airplanes have a manual flap pump, which is something like 500$ used and the last one my friend ordered, didn't work well either. After he spent 3 days fooling with the one he had that didn't work. The Dukes actuator installed in the older planes doesn't have the expensive no back clutch, or the brass emergency extension piece that wears out, and parts are available. Just inspect the gears on prebuy and keep it lubed with that LASAR special dukes grease. 1 Quote
Andy95W Posted June 27, 2016 Report Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) I rarely disagree with Byron, but... He's right about the Dukes actuator being less difficulty than its modern replacement. My first M20C had it and it was generally very reliable. Even so, my current Jonson Bar is even more reliable and even easier to work on. The hydraulic flaps are... interesting. Working on them is more of an art than anything else. I've rebuilt two of them from front to back and just getting the system bled is frustrating. Once you learn the tricks, though, they are almost foolproof and very robust. I'll say the only system I'd rather have are the mechanical flaps on a Cherokee or early C-172. Edit- I don't know why the flap parts would be $500. Total parts to rebuild mine was about $50 from LASAR. A few hours labor, a few hours frustration, and a lot of interesting cuss-word combinations later and it works great! Edited June 27, 2016 by N1395W Quote
MARZ Posted June 27, 2016 Report Posted June 27, 2016 11 hours ago, HRM said: The reason I own the finest E left is because the PO could no longer get it up (or down for that matter). It's rigging is flawless (yes, I know that sounds like braggadocio, but it's true--trust me, i'm a pilot). I have stated that when I can no longer get it up (or down for that matter), I will fold my wings. Consider an electric gear Mooney. sooo many jokes.... I just can't do it But seriously - I had tennis elbow for about half a year last year - didn't have any issues. Quote
Bart Chilcott Posted June 27, 2016 Report Posted June 27, 2016 I have no issue with retracting or extending the gear with the johnson bar in my E. I recently broke the bicep in my right arm and subsiquently tore my rotator cuff. I had suregery to repair the rotator cuff but not the bicep. My ONLY issue with the manual gear is unlatching it from the socket. Like everyone else, I think its all about air speed and rigging. Quote
Bob_Belville Posted June 27, 2016 Report Posted June 27, 2016 When I get old I might consider an electric gear but I'm only 73 so that won't be any time soon. 8 Quote
Roger O Posted June 27, 2016 Author Report Posted June 27, 2016 Thanks everyone for your insight. After much thought, I do believe that getting the electric gear is the best option, even at the tender age of 65! I do want to keep flying, and there is no sense in stressing any more about it. 2 Quote
Mooneymite Posted June 28, 2016 Report Posted June 28, 2016 (edited) Just a note about the electric flaps....Please correct me if I'm wrong. It's my understanding that when Mooney went to the electric flaps, the flap motor was braced against a fuselage bulkhead and not the aft spar like the hydraulic flaps. The older Mooneys with hydraulic flaps often turn up with cracked aft spars and need the spar-splice repair done. This damage may be caused by overspeeding the flaps. The electric flap models don't usually turn up with aft spar damage. Edited June 28, 2016 by Mooneymite spelling Quote
Marauder Posted June 28, 2016 Report Posted June 28, 2016 Just a note about the electric flaps....Please correct me if I'm wrong. It's my understanding that when Mooney went to the electric flaps, the flap motor was braced against a fuselage bulkhead and not the aft spar like the hydraulic flaps. The older Mooneys with hydraulic flaps often turn up with cracked aft spars and need the spar-splice repair done. This damage may be caused by overspeeding the flaps. The electric flap models don't usually turn up with aft spar damage. I have pictures of this on my laptop at home. I think the flap mechanism is attached to the front spar but it does attach to something on the back as well. If one of the IAs doesn't respond, I will post what I have and maybe we can figure it out. I often worry about this as well since it is easy to overspeed it. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote
Hank Posted June 29, 2016 Report Posted June 29, 2016 On June 27, 2016 at 6:15 PM, Sherman18 said: Thanks everyone for your insight. After much thought, I do believe that getting the electric gear is the best option, even at the tender age of 65! I do want to keep flying, and there is no sense in stressing any more about it. I had right shoulder surgery at 37. Bought my electric Mooney at 44. Have had zero new right shoulder problems related to flying the plane, just some leftovers from before. Moving that little switch up and down, or holding that flap button while they move, just doesn't bother me at all. Quote
HRM Posted June 29, 2016 Report Posted June 29, 2016 On June 26, 2016 at 11:17 PM, carusoam said: Harley, That is braggadocio of the finest kind! Best regards, -a- Anthony, I aim to please 1 Quote
Roger O Posted June 29, 2016 Author Report Posted June 29, 2016 Now to find that perfect C or E... Any recommendations? Quote
Bob_Belville Posted June 29, 2016 Report Posted June 29, 2016 Just now, Sherman18 said: Now to find that perfect C or E... Any recommendations? Perfect C or E... with electric gear. Oxymoron? 1 Quote
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