End of the year accounting

[Danb]

So true Chris..unless of course your fibbed to by major corporations.  Then all bets are off.

[Mark89114]

Don't add it up, don't know, don't care.  It costs what it costs and I move on. Doesn't mean I just throw money at it without thinking about it, as mentioned somewhere else it isn't economical.  

[bonal]

37 minutes ago, Mark89114 said:

Don't add it up, don't know, don't care.  It costs what it costs and I move on. Doesn't mean I just throw money at it without thinking about it, as mentioned somewhere else it isn't economical.  

+1. I try not to think on it too much, sometimes a little ignorance is best

[mpg]

1 hour ago, bonal said:

+1. I try not to think on it too much, sometimes a little ignorance is best

ignorance is Not BEST,,,   it is BLISS!!

 

I see a lot of folks afraid to know the truth about the cost of their flying,,  are just like the guys afraid to reweigh their plane.

[Marauder]

Here is another twist on the accounting. Since I have owned my plane (25 years this year), I have kept records of the costs to own, maintain, upgrade, look at, shine and everything else associated with the plane.

By keeping these records, it is very easy to explain to the wife the economic impact of owning the plane on the financials. Much easier than trying to explain each and every bill that we pay. She sees the annual cost and knows how that fits into our family financials. If I am planning on indulging on something, she knows where the reserves come from to pay for it.

It also made it very easy to justify ownership when we went through years of renting and paying for things like "3 hours for overnight stays" because we kept a plane overnight and didn't fly it. It wasn't also hard for the wife to see the quality of the rental fleet that was available to us. Like the time a rental plane that had a missing aileron and nobody in the FBO knew what happened to it.

It doesn't however stop her from making the comment "it would be cheaper if you had a cocaine habit".

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[smccray]

On January 24, 2016 at 0:50 AM, StinkBug said:

Curious if any of you have done the same math and figured out what your plane costs to fly per hour.

Hell no!  Why would I do that to myself?  I know what the analysis would say so I suppose ignorance is bliss.

[StinkBug]

9 hours ago, mpg said:

Sigh,,,,,       your post told me a lot about your costs,,,   I  dont need to break out a spread sheet in order to multiply,

divide, add and subtract some numbers that were the point of your request..   Oh well...

I gave total hours, average hour cost and rough GPH number. You could get an estimate of number of gallons burned (though not terribly accurate) but since I didn't give any kind of breakdown of how much of that total hourly cost went to fuel you're just taking a WAG at what the fixed and hourly costs are. Sigh all you want, but you're inserting numbers somewhere that were not given.

[PMcClure]

I plan on about $1 a mile flying my R model around 100 hours per year. Not that it matters much. Going to do it anyway. 

 

[bonal]

5 hours ago, mpg said:

ignorance is Not BEST,,,   it is BLISS!!

 

I see a lot of folks afraid to know the truth about the cost of their flying,,  are just like the guys afraid to reweigh their plane.

Yes, thank you I know the phrase but in this case its best. Im not afraid to know it is whatever it takes for the freedom to fly. for me and I'm sure many there are no rental planes near by. I would have to drive at least 1.5 hours to the nearest rental.  And, no offense but perhaps if you didn't analyze it so much to justify the expense you would not be wishing for a C,E or F and would be cursing yourself instead for buying that darn plane.

[CaptainAB]

Actually the economics of plane ownership are like the economics of all things. Your cost of ownership is measured by the cost or profit of your alternative (most likely in this case renting an airplane). 

[carl]

great job stink bug.. 

 

i thought you built exotic race car parts 

and your tour of america was epic !

[mpg]

6 hours ago, bonal said:

Yes, thank you I know the phrase but in this case its best. Im not afraid to know it is whatever it takes for the freedom to fly. for me and I'm sure many there are no rental planes near by. I would have to drive at least 1.5 hours to the nearest rental.  And, no offense but perhaps if you didn't analyze it so much to justify the expense you would not be wishing for a C,E or F and would be cursing yourself instead for buying that darn plane.

Yes I could just dig up my yard and give the money for a c, e, f,,,   but because I do analyze the costs,,,

I Know that I would Not be able to use it as I should.   My budget just wont stretch that big,

I am retired,,  I am Poor...   The plane would just end up rotting on the ramp,  till I sold it for a big loss!

[jetdriven]

20 hours ago, StinkBug said:

I too am laughing at the 10 year radio and paint plan. My plane was painted last in 1975. It could use a paint job now, but it probably has another 5 years until it actually needs it. The #2 comm is definitely more than 10 years old, and the 430 probably is too. Honestly, this plane doesn't need to have money thrown at it. I bought it to fly and it does that very well, and I have no doubt it will continue to fly well for many years to come. There are an awful lot of 50 year old airplanes out there with original avionics in them. Just be cause newer is nicer doesn't mean it's a mandatory expense. 

I do believe in adding all the fixed costs into the math though. It's money that has to be spent to own the plane. It's not a variable like the fuel, but its money that wouldn't be spent otherwise. 

MPG, as for your math on my hours, I have no idea where you're getting those numbers because nowhere did I say what my fuel cost was, nor what my other hourly costs were. 

Old radios and paint is the reason why a runout 77 J is worth 60K and a GTN650-aspen-new paint one is worth around 100K.  So, dont spend the money on the plane, its your choice. But by not doing so, it will bring less at sale time, and that is a real cost at that point.  Deduct 10K for yours, "needs paint".  Deduct 10K for no WAAS GPS... Or smoothly upgrade it as you go, but that costs too. Either way, you dont add up the costs of hangars, repairs, and annuals, plug gas and call it good. Because its not.  That stuff depreciates and wears out, and needs to be accounted for, just like engine and props do.

[mpg]

9 hours ago, StinkBug said:

I gave total hours, average hour cost and rough GPH number. You could get an estimate of number of gallons burned (though not terribly accurate) but since I didn't give any kind of breakdown of how much of that total hourly cost went to fuel you're just taking a WAG at what the fixed and hourly costs are. Sigh all you want, but you're inserting numbers somewhere that were not given.

Well,,, you are right again,,  Yeah!!!    I was only able to make WAG's.

 

Sooo, I think you should go upstairs, and ask your Mom/CPA for a spread sheet,,  then you can break out

all the correct costs of ownership/flying and do all of the math your own damn self, as you should have

done in the first place instead of going to a forum and asking for us to do it for you, with incomplete info!

 

Please report back with the correct info/costs...    And grow up!!!

[bonal]

MPG no offense meant I know that owning is no easy thing I had to wait for a long time before I could afford it and quite honestly will be even harder when I reach retirement. I expect I will be looking for part time work to continue to own and fly. But it will be doing something I enjoy not like the giant stress sandwich I deal with currently.  When it comes to my Mooney I recon I'm at the bottom of the food chain round these parts. And perhaps that is why it is so rewarding. Something I never thought I could actually do in life.

[StinkBug]

4 hours ago, carl said:

great job stink bug.. 

 

i thought you built exotic race car parts 

and your tour of america was epic !

I don't know that I'd say exotic. I make custom stuff for off-road race trucks. Usually they get beaten against rocks. Sane people don't do that with things labeled "exotic" LOL

 

MPG, you go from guessing at numbers to just acting like a jackass and making insults. All I did is question how you could get numbers that were not given. Seems to me you're the one with some growing up to do. For the record I never asked you to do any math for me, you volunteered with made up numbers all on your own. I did the math today. At 100hours I wouldn't have been ahead of renting, but I would have been $10/hour under your WAG.

[mpg]

18 minutes ago, StinkBug said:

I don't know that I'd say exotic. I make custom stuff for off-road race trucks. Usually they get beaten against rocks. Sane people don't do that with things labeled "exotic" LOL

 

MPG, you go from guessing at numbers to just acting like a jackass and making insults. All I did is question how you could get numbers that were not given. Seems to me you're the one with some growing up to do. For the record I never asked you to do any math for me, you volunteered with made up numbers all on your own. I did the math today. At 100hours I wouldn't have been ahead of renting, but I would have been $10/hour under your WAG.

Well,,,,  you are right again!!!

As I made my last post I knew I was going to sound like an ass, and I was going to be insulting!

You did challenge my accuracy, but you didnt ask how I got my numbers, mostly you said I

must not be right because you didnt give enough info to come to my conclusions.

Oh well,,,   now you have done what would have been easy for you to do in the first place.

Your very own math!

Im glad you did,,  now you know some more about your true costs for a normal year,,  good..

I wont challenge your accuracy, or ask for more info, so I can find out why I was wrong,,,   by 10 dollars!!!

 

BTW,,  Im 63, so far,,,   Im too old to grow up now..

and Im too old to die young

 

Oh yeh,,  BTW, I also enjoyed your adventure, flying cross country, showing us pics,, providing a safe

place to live vicariously through you!  thanx 

[carl]

16 hours ago, mpg said:

Im too old to die young

No, this is the new middle age, old has been pushed back to over 100. 

 

 

Also did anyone calculate the recouped money when you sell the plane.

my first plane was a Grumman aa5 traveler . I had to do a major overhaul , i financed it . my wife bitched and bitched . I had the plane for maybe 5 years and then couldn't take the complaining so I sold it. 

I got back my purchase price plus the overhaul cost plus money in my pocket . Don't tell my "Ex" i made a profit on the deal she will want half.  

 

 

[Guest]

20 hours ago, mpg said:

Well,,, you are right again,,  Yeah!!!    I was only able to make WAG's.

 

Sooo, I think you should go upstairs, and ask your Mom/CPA for a spread sheet,,  then you can break out

all the correct costs of ownership/flying and do all of the math your own damn self, as you should have

done in the first place instead of going to a forum and asking for us to do it for you, with incomplete info!

 

Please report back with the correct info/costs...    And grow up!!!

Wow!  From the guy who doesn't even have a plane and likely never will.

Clarence

[DXB]

Yeah impressive amount of acrimony building on this pretty tame topic.  You'd think someone pulled a chute or something 

[Toe knee]

I have had a few toys over the years from boats, motorcycles, four wheelers, UTV, motor homes, snowmobiles ( that's  A really expensive sport with a very short season) and now I've jumped in the airplane realm. I just want to add my two cents worth and say that while yes flying is expensive, ( boat stands for bust out another thousand) it is convenient if you can use it for business, it is fun to fly somewhere and get $100 hamburgers, or pancakes with my daughter, and can you really put a price on fun and memories? Life is really short you should enjoy it while you can...

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard Toen.

take the kids flying.  They will remind you of all the fun you had when your memories aren't as strong. 

Best regards,

-a-

[gsxrpilot]

As I was thinking of getting into airplane ownership, I certainly looked at average costs for different models including fixed and running costs. Based on very rough estimates and examples, I figured I could probably afford to fly a Bravo or something similar, about 100 to 150 hours per year.  So I took that information and bought a very nice C. That way I don't have to think about it, budget it, or do any accounting, I just fly it.  I logged 140.3 hours last year and have no idea what it cost.

I live in a house (1088 sq/ft), and drive a 10 year old Toyota, all much less then I can afford. This keeps me from having to do any math.

Just my $0.02ish

[bonal]

To MPG I don't know your financial situation but if you truly want to fly there are options other than a Mooney (don't kill me guys) that are much less costly. You can get into a Cessna 150 for less than a used car with very low operating cost. We flew ours all over CA even into the Sierras yeah it's slower but still way faster than any car you can drive legally. I really enjoyed my time in mine and was just as proud to be able to call it mine as I am with my Mooney.

[Browncbr1]

Mine worked out to about $130/hr (wet) this year at 75hours.  The problem is that this doesn't include all the upgrades and other things I haven't accounted for.   Haha.