X-wind technique.

[Mooneymite]

Watching this made me pretty uncomfortable.....

 

 

[M20S Driver]

I guess going around was not an option here!!!

These airline pilots need to get a tail wheel endorsement to help them do a better job in cross wind landings--

 

[Hank]

Honest, Gus, none of those were me! I'm not even multi rated, much less turbine endorsed!   Many of those looked like the other Birmingham, over there in Merry Old England. I'd rather watch those landings than be along for the ride, but either would be better than riding up front holding the yoke.

That's what we have you professional types for . . .  

[Piloto]

It gets pretty tricky on icy runways. I always raise the flaps just before touchdown.

José

[mike20papa]

Poor instruction = poor stick & rudder skills, no idea how to fly an xwind and of course..all of them obviously instructed in the "crab & kick" - "hack & slap" technique.   I didn't see a single forward slip into a stabilized approach.  These are the same guys, give them a warbird and they'll promptly roll it into the ground. 

[Guest]

Looking at the wind socks visible in some of the clips,  it does not look like a very strong wind.

Clarence

[Shadrach]

Some of these landing were well executed. The purple Flybe aircraft at around 3:00 was a fine landing. I fly a tail dragger pretty regularly, and I'm not sure how much it would help someone become better at landing with a 25kt crosswind component. Most folks don't fly Tail Draggers in strong crosswinds and for good reason. 

Tail draggers will make a sloppy pilot more precise, but so will flying a Mooney into a <2500ft strip. I'm not a crab and kick guy. I prefer to have the slip set and stable by short final.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Shadrach

[MyNameIsNobody]

Crab 'em if you got 'em.

[merrja]

 

Some of these landing were well executed. The purple Flybe aircraft at around 3:00 was a fine landing. I fly a tail dragger pretty regularly, and I'm not sure how much it would help someone become better at landing with a 25kt crosswind component. Most folks don't fly Tail Draggers in strong crosswinds and for good reason. 

Tail draggers will make a sloppy pilot more precise, but so will flying a Mooney into a <2500ft strip. I'm not a crab and kick guy. I prefer to have the slip set and stable by short final.

I moved to a 2400' strip with a hill at the top and trees on 3 sides, it was the best thing that could have happened to improve my Mooney skills.  An unstable approach in those types of airports always lead to a less than desirable outcome. 

[Shadrach]

 

I moved to a 2400' strip with a hill at the top and trees on 3 sides, it was the best thing that could have happened to improve my Mooney skills.  An unstable approach in those types of airports always lead to a less than desirable outcome. 

I tend to agree with you. On the other hand, I have gotten so used to "playing"with airplane approaches that I often challenge myself to making "non standard" VFR approaches that would be considered unstable by most.  The 2 things that really matter are that you don't get too slow when you're trying to fly and don't be to fast when trying to land. Most guys fly Moonys the same way they would a business jet. That's good for passengers. However, these planes will comfortably do full cross controlled slips to landing. I wish more folks would practice them. 2400 certainly requires attention. There are a lot of folks that would skip a field like that due to length.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Shadrach

[M20F]

 

There are a lot of folks that would skip a field like that due to length.

If it is a choice between a 2400' foot strip and a 6000' strip five miles down the road, I am going five miles down the road.  I have no doubts on my ability to squeeze into 2400' or less, but it certainly creates additional risk that I don't need.  Just because you are capable of doing something, doesn't mean it is wise doing it.

[Shadrach]

 

If it is a choice between a 2400' foot strip and a 6000' strip five miles down the road, I am going five miles down the road.  I have no doubts on my ability to squeeze into 2400' or less, but it certainly creates additional risk that I don't need.  Just because you are capable of doing something, doesn't mean it is wise doing it.

It's all relative to what you're used to. There's a guy that bases a 20C at 2W2. If he observes the DT (for trees) he gets it down and stopped in under 1600' everytime he lands. I imagine 2400' would feel roomy to him. Oddly, I'm perfectly comfortable taking my F in there, but I'm not ready to try it in a Decathlon.

[Mooneymite]

 

..... Most guys fly Moonys the same way they would a business jet. ...

If they fly it like they fly their biz jet landing on a short narrow strip, that's good.  Same technique.....speed control, speed control, and speed control are 3 important things to remember.  

[M20F]

 

It's all relative to what you're used to. 

Statistics unfortunately do not work that way.  As you increase the level of risk, you increase the level of incident.

[bonal]

I tend to make my best landings when conditions are poor as compared to long calm wind stabilized finals. Crosswinds are common at home and there is a tricky little vortex just before the numbers caused by the up wind hangars. Slipping for me is much more comfortable than crabbing and feels more solid or planted 

[merrja]

 

I tend to agree with you. On the other hand, I have gotten so used to "playing"with airplane approaches that I often challenge myself to making "non standard" VFR approaches that would be considered unstable by most.  The 2 things that really matter are that you don't get too slow when you're trying to fly and don't be to fast when trying to land. Most guys fly Moonys the same way they would a business jet. That's good for passengers. However, these planes will comfortably do full cross controlled slips to landing. I wish more folks would practice them. 2400 certainly requires attention. There are a lot of folks that would skip a field like that due to length.

Agreed... my only problem is that I land in the first 100' on a 7000' runway

[Browncbr1]

 

Statistics unfortunately do not work that way.  As you increase the level of risk, you increase the level of incident.

Statistics don't account for the individual though.   do you think your health insurance rate should be tied to your actual health or zip code?     Did your mooney insurer ever visit you to evaluate your skill, ability, and condition?  Doubt it.   Risk is not universally equal, although usually pooled that way by insurers.  IMHO

[Shadrach]

 

Statistics unfortunately do not work that way.  As you increase the level of risk, you increase the level of incident.

Yes, but in the situation I mentioned, the highest risk option is the norm for the pilot.  So something that may seem risky one is not to another.  Interestingly, I just went throught this exercise flew to the Buffalo area last week to pick up the new baby mobile. 

Closest option to the dealership were:

5.9 miles Hamburg at 2465'

14.1 miles Buffalo Airfield at 2668'

18 miles Buffalo International 8229'

The region had received 11" of snow 3 days prior to my arrival.

Hamburg was closed because it had not been plowed.

Buffalo airfield was cleared with good braking but patches of ice.

Buffalo International also had good braking with patches of ice.

I chose Buffalo Airfield. It never really occurred to me that this was a risky choice. Maybe I should be more conservative, but even if I had lost my brakes. I don't think of 2600 as low margin.

 

[MyNameIsNobody]

 

Statistics don't account for the individual though.   do you think your health insurance rate should be tied to your actual health or zip code?     Did your mooney insurer ever visit you to evaluate your skill, ability, and condition?  Doubt it.   Risk is not universally equal, although usually pooled that way by insurers.  IMHO

Of course it is.  That is how insurance companies price.  They use actuarial predictions.  Commercial carriers DO evaluate the individual insured on a prospective basis and or after the insurance contract is completed.

Would it be cost effective to have a carrier fly with each pilot they insure?  To complete an inspection of each aircraft?  No.  They do ask for information about where your store it, do you fly for work/pleasure.  Who is allowed to fly the plane.  How many hours you fly.  They take for granted that you follow FAR's (Annual for plane and flight review/medical).  

You do get a lower rate for health insurance based on if you smoke.  Our provider provides a lesser premium if you provide screens (Cholesterol) etc.

Of course risk is not universally equal.  How do they "pool it"?  Not sure what you are getting at?

[Marauder]

  Statistics unfortunately do not work that way.  As you increase the level of risk, you increase the level of incident.

Yes, but in the situation I mentioned, the highest risk option is the norm for the pilot.  So something that may seem risky one is not to another.  Interestingly, I just went throught this exercise flew to the Buffalo area last week to pick up the new baby mobile. 

Closest option to the dealership were:

5.9 miles Hamburg at 2465'

14.1 miles Buffalo Airfield at 2668'

18 miles Buffalo International 8229'

The region had received 11" of snow 3 days prior to my arrival.

Hamburg was closed because it had not been plowed.

Buffalo airfield was cleared with good braking but patches of ice.

Buffalo International also had good braking with patches of ice.

I chose Buffalo Airfield. It never really occurred to me that this was a risky choice. Maybe I should be more conservative, but even if I had lost my brakes. I don't think of 2600 as low margin.

 

When I first bought my Mooney, I was using the mechanic at Buffalo Airfield and flew in and out all year round. When Bob Jacobs owned the field, it was usually well plowed. I never felt uneasy about going in and out of there. Even with the trees on the runway 6's side of the Field.

I stopped flying in there the last few years because gas was not available on the field. Did they have fuel on the field? Also, they were supposed to build a new FBO building. Did that get done?

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[Shadrach]

He's suggesting that an individual making their own risk assessment does so based on their own experience not group statistics.

[Shadrach]

 

When I first bought my Mooney, I was using the mechanic at Buffalo Airfield and flew in and out all year round. When Bob Jacobs owned the field, it was usually well plowed. I never felt uneasy about going in and out of there. Even with the trees on the runway 6's side of the Field.

I stopped flying in there the last few years because gas was not available on the field. Did they have fuel on the field? Also, they were supposed to build a new FBO building. Did that get done?

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New FBO IS 80% done (framed up, roof, roughed in rooms). SS was $5.39.  I think Bob still owns the field. Did he own a fleet of C310s that he used for flying bank checks?

[Marauder]

 

 

New FBO IS 80% done (framed up, roof, roughed in rooms). SS was $5.39.  I think Bob still owns the field. Did he own a fleet of C310s that he used for flying bank checks?

 

Bob died and his estate sold the field to Joe Pezzanite who owns Lindsay Aviation. They did fly checks. I did my complex checkout in their J.

When they took over the airport, it was an active flight school and I think it is a shell of its former self.

I'm glad to hear it is still open. Much closer to my family.

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[Shadrach]

 

 

 

Bob died and his estate sold the field to Joe Pezzanite who owns Lindsay Aviation. They did fly checks. I did my complex checkout in their J.

When they took over the airport, it was an active flight school and I think it is a shell of its former self.

I'm glad to hear it is still open. Much closer to my family.

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It looks like they entertain ideas of bringing it back. I try to be optimistic but...

The mechanic on the field is rehabbing a 67F they bought at auction and they also have a Lancair RG550 that is about 60% completed. The place is a mess though.

[carusoam]

Flying checks looked like a nice business for a young guy with a plane and commercial certificate...

The smart phone and the Internet has put the bank into your pocket along with the check flying business.

Best regards,

-a-