Mooney down around Montréal

[M20S Driver]

14 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Yves,

Thanks for your efforts keeping us up to date.

Any word on the funeral home?  I'd like to send flowers or do something for a charity in his name. 

Clarence

Here is what I found:  

Houman Yahyaei

It is with great sadness that we announce the passing of Houman Yahyaei, 40 years old, on December 28th, 2015, at the Pierre- Le Gardeur Hospital, following a plane crash. 

Houman Yahyaei was the son of Abbas Yahyaei and Batoul Assadi, residing in Laval.

The family will welcome relatives and friends at the funeral complex Jardins Urgel Bourgie Athos (2500, Avenue des Perrons, Auteuil); 
Saturday, January 9th, 2016 from 1 pm to 6 pm to receive condolences.

The burial service will be at the cemetery of the Jardins Urgel Bourgie Athos.

Houman will be lovingly remembered by his son Sean Yahyaei, his father Abbas Yahyaei and his mother Batoul Assadi, as well as his sister Hedyeh Yahyaei. He also leaves in mourning his family in Iran and their spouses, not to mention his many friends and colleagues and the entire aviation community.

The family wishes to thank all the staff of the Pierre-Le Gardeur Hospital and the Sainte-Justine University Hospital for the good care given.

[yvesg]

The funeral home detailed address is:

Memorial garden
Funeral complex
Urgel Bourgie / Athos
2500, avenue des Perron
Laval (Québec) H7J 1G5

For those who want to make donations, Mike and Alice Elliott have pledged to help his son Sean via the Bill Gilliland foundation (which is under the Mooney Summit). Here is the address and email:

The Mooney Summit, Inc.
1334 Riverside Dr.
Tarpon Springs, Fl. 34689
EIN # 47-4343940

Alice@inetconnection.com

Yves

[mike_elliott]

4 hours ago, yvesg said:

The funeral home detailed address is:

Memorial garden
Funeral complex
Urgel Bourgie / Athos
2500, avenue des Perron
Laval (Québec) H7J 1G5

For those who want to make donations, Mike and Alice Elliott have pledged to help his son Sean via the Bill Gilliland foundation (which is under the Mooney Summit). Here is the address and email:

The Mooney Summit, Inc.
1334 Riverside Dr.
Tarpon Springs, Fl. 34689
EIN # 47-4343940

Alice@inetconnection.com

Yves

Thanks Yves for getting the info to me. As part of the Mooney Summit, we use excess donations to help those in need at the time of their greatest need. If one feels inclined to help Sean, feel free to contact me or Alice and we will make sure 100% of your tax deductible donation goes to him. Because of the generosity of all involved with the Mooney Summit, and the generosity of the attendee's we are able to do this. We will be reaching out to Houman's sister next week to offer our help. Right now is time for family for them.

[yvesg]

I wanted to find out about any enquiry happening with this so I contacted the TSB president who I personnally know and here is her answer:

From: Fox, Kathy
Sent: January 27, 2016 4:34 PM
To: Grenier, Yves
Subject: RE: Mooney accident in Mascouche Dec 28th.

 

Hello Yves,

 

The TSB is not doing an investigation with a public report. We receive several thousand occurrence reports a year (in all modes where we have jurisdiction), and we can’t investigate  all of them. We focus our efforts where we believe an investigation of a specific occurrence will advance transportation safety. In this case, the occurrence was classified as a 5, meaning we collect and retain information for statistical purposes.

 

For privacy reasons, I can’t share specific details about this accident. I can tell you that, in general, we often provide assistance to a coroner following a fatal accident, if requested, and will also share what information we have with the next of kin. If there was a problem with a specific aircraft type, we would also issue a safety communication to Transport Canada or to the manufacturer for their awareness and action as appropriate.

 

We are aware there is interest in the aviation community following an accident like this, and we are currently examining ways to get more factual information out to the aviation community while still respecting the privacy of individuals involved.

 

I hope this clarifies the situation.

 

 

Kathy Fox

Présidente / Bureau du président(e)

Bureau de la sécurité des transports du Canada / Gouvernement du Canada 

Chair / Office of the Chair

Transportation Safety Board of Canada / Government of Canada

 

[aviatoreb]

4 minutes ago, yvesg said:

I wanted to find out about any enquiry happening with this so I contacted the TSB president who I personnally know and here is her answer:

From: Fox, Kathy
Sent: January 27, 2016 4:34 PM
To: Grenier, Yves
Subject: RE: Mooney accident in Mascouche Dec 28th.

 

 

 

Hello Yves,

 

 

 

The TSB is not doing an investigation with a public report. We receive several thousand occurrence reports a year (in all modes where we have jurisdiction), and we can’t investigate  all of them. We focus our efforts where we believe an investigation of a specific occurrence will advance transportation safety. In this case, the occurrence was classified as a 5, meaning we collect and retain information for statistical purposes.

 

 

 

For privacy reasons, I can’t share specific details about this accident. I can tell you that, in general, we often provide assistance to a coroner following a fatal accident, if requested, and will also share what information we have with the next of kin. If there was a problem with a specific aircraft type, we would also issue a safety communication to Transport Canada or to the manufacturer for their awareness and action as appropriate.

 

 

 

We are aware there is interest in the aviation community following an accident like this, and we are currently examining ways to get more factual information out to the aviation community while still respecting the privacy of individuals involved.

 

 

 

I hope this clarifies the situation.

 

 

 

 

 

Kathy Fox

 

Présidente / Bureau du président(e)

 

Bureau de la sécurité des transports du Canada / Gouvernement du Canada 

 

Chair / Office of the Chair

 

Transportation Safety Board of Canada / Government of Canada

 

 

Thank you Yves.

Very different investigation standards than the us ntsb.

[Cyril Gibb]

I just checked the CADORS (incident report) database.  With my limited French, the update says that the plane touched down at the airport then took off again before "tilting left" and crashing.

That doesn't do much to clarify what happened.

[yvesg]

With the winds provided by carquick and this CADORS, it definitely looks like he did not choose the best runway to land (with runway 29 he had a small tail wind of a few knots). With a narrow and relatively short (3000 feet) runway if by any chance he came in fast, this would call for a go around. Looks like something went bad on the go around after he realized he was too fast.

Yves

[Cruiser]

From my personal experience in a M20J model and from several other well known sources, a full power go around decision after touchdown will produce extreme pitch up and left yawing tendency.

If the pilot is not prepared for this, the plane will quickly get on the backside of the power curve. Low, slow and dirty, it is impossible to recover.

Not saying that is what happened here.......... just sayin'.............

[gsengle]

Id have to believe any experienced mooney pilot is very ready with a forward push and rapid re-trim upon go around - we've all practiced it I'd hope...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bradp]

6 minutes ago, gsengle said:

 

Id have to believe any experienced mooney pilot is very ready with a forward push and rapid re-trim upon go around - we've all practiced it I'd hope...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Deleted.  Wrong topic iPhone misclick.  

[gsengle]

I was under the impression that he was reasonably experienced... But others know better.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[M20F]

3 hours ago, yvesg said:

With the winds provided by carquick and this CADORS, it definitely looks like he did not choose the best runway to land (with runway 29 he had a small tail wind of a few knots). With a narrow and relatively short (3000 feet) runway if by any chance he came in fast, this would call for a go around. Looks like something went bad on the go around after he realized he was too fast.

Yves

If you bounce and are fast it is no problem on the go around.  If you bounce and you are slow (usually due to excessive vertical velocity where you are flying high AOA to keep speed down and it craters  in) as Cruiser states you are way behind the power curve and it bleeds off tremendous energy on the bounce.  No idea what is the case in this specific incident but it is always better to screw up with a bit more speed because a good bounce at Vs or less isn't going to go around in a lot of conditions and you have to instead try to gently let it hit again and try and stop.

Almost all accidents tend to boil down to a bad decision as opposed to skills.  Skills can get you out of a lot, but as guys like Scott Crossfield found out all the skill in the world can't offset some decisions.

God speed to the pilot and I hope his son is doing well.

[mike_elliott]

18 hours ago, yvesg said:

I wanted to find out about any enquiry happening with this so I contacted the TSB president who I personnally know and here is her answer:

From: Fox, Kathy
Sent: January 27, 2016 4:34 PM
To: Grenier, Yves
Subject: RE: Mooney accident in Mascouche Dec 28th.

 

 

 

Hello Yves,

 

 

 

The TSB is not doing an investigation with a public report. We receive several thousand occurrence reports a year (in all modes where we have jurisdiction), and we can’t investigate  all of them. We focus our efforts where we believe an investigation of a specific occurrence will advance transportation safety. In this case, the occurrence was classified as a 5, meaning we collect and retain information for statistical purposes.

 

 

 

For privacy reasons, I can’t share specific details about this accident. I can tell you that, in general, we often provide assistance to a coroner following a fatal accident, if requested, and will also share what information we have with the next of kin. If there was a problem with a specific aircraft type, we would also issue a safety communication to Transport Canada or to the manufacturer for their awareness and action as appropriate.

 

 

 

We are aware there is interest in the aviation community following an accident like this, and we are currently examining ways to get more factual information out to the aviation community while still respecting the privacy of individuals involved.

 

 

 

I hope this clarifies the situation.

 

 

 

 

 

Kathy Fox

 

Présidente / Bureau du président(e)

 

Bureau de la sécurité des transports du Canada / Gouvernement du Canada 

 

Chair / Office of the Chair

 

Transportation Safety Board of Canada / Government of Canada

 

 

Thanks Yves, We appreciate all you are doing on this.

[mooniac15u]

16 minutes ago, gsengle said:

I was under the impression that he was reasonably experienced... But others know better.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

http://mooneyspace.com/topic/17344-mooney-down-around-montréal/?do=findComment&comment=250278

Sounds like maybe he only had a couple hundred hours.

[Seth]

7 minutes ago, mooniac15u said:

http://mooneyspace.com/topic/17344-mooney-down-around-montréal/?do=findComment&comment=250278

Sounds like maybe he only had a couple hundred hours.

Yes, Houman was still learning.  He had between 100 and 200 hours TT (If I recall closer to 150 TT) in May 2015 at the formation flying clinic.  He had about 50 of those in the Mooney Rocket at that time.  

He was aware he had a lot to learn, was still learning, and from the sound of it, flew the Mooney all over the place in the following 7 months until the crash.  Attending proficiency training, working on his IFR (I think) and more.  However, even if he flew the heck out of the plane, he still reasonably may have only gotten another 150 hours on the aircraft, maybe more, maybe less.  Thus, he would not be considered a novice at that point, but still learning the nuances of the Mooney, especially a high performance Mooney Rocket.  He would have had probably between 250 and 375 hours at that point.  Right smack in the middle of the danger zone where complacency sometimes kicks in.  A dark fast approach to a short runway with a tailwind and a botched go-around after a long fatiguing cross country could very well explain what happened, however I'm going to wait and read the full report when it comes out.  For all we know the engine coughed during the go-around due to low fuel and the pitch up.  He really loved flying and was a nice guy.  I'm glad his son is recovering. 

The 8 point engine mount of the Mooney Rocket and Missile are canted a few degrees more than the factory Mooney's and thus need less right rudder during takeoff.  That being said, you still need right rudder.  I had three pilots fly my Missile recently while my foot was healing from a procedure while I flew right seat and all commented how they expected to need a lot more right rudder than required on takeoff.  Rocket did a very good job with the conversion (thought always some pros and cons).

I hope his son continues to recover and will always remember the great trip to Florida they shared together.

 

Take care,

 

-Seth

 

[M20F]

Just now, Seth said:

however I'm going to wait and read the full report when it comes out.  

There will be no report, see Erik's post.

[Seth]

Just now, M20F said:

There will be no report, see Erik's post.

Oh . . .

[Guest]

23 hours ago, yvesg said:

I wanted to find out about any enquiry happening with this so I contacted the TSB president who I personnally know and here is her answer:

From: Fox, Kathy
Sent: January 27, 2016 4:34 PM
To: Grenier, Yves
Subject: RE: Mooney accident in Mascouche Dec 28th.

 

 

 

Hello Yves,

 

 

 

The TSB is not doing an investigation with a public report. We receive several thousand occurrence reports a year (in all modes where we have jurisdiction), and we can’t investigate  all of them. We focus our efforts where we believe an investigation of a specific occurrence will advance transportation safety. In this case, the occurrence was classified as a 5, meaning we collect and retain information for statistical purposes.

 

 

 

For privacy reasons, I can’t share specific details about this accident. I can tell you that, in general, we often provide assistance to a coroner following a fatal accident, if requested, and will also share what information we have with the next of kin. If there was a problem with a specific aircraft type, we would also issue a safety communication to Transport Canada or to the manufacturer for their awareness and action as appropriate.

 

 

 

We are aware there is interest in the aviation community following an accident like this, and we are currently examining ways to get more factual information out to the aviation community while still respecting the privacy of individuals involved.

 

 

 

I hope this clarifies the situation.

 

 

 

 

 

Kathy Fox

 

Présidente / Bureau du président(e)

 

Bureau de la sécurité des transports du Canada / Gouvernement du Canada 

 

Chair / Office of the Chair

 

Transportation Safety Board of Canada / Government of Canada

 

 

What a load of BS!

Clarence

[M20S Driver]

Does anyone have any info on how Houman's son is doing?