Greetings, and in the market for a Mooney!

[Marauder]

I am a 75 F owner. If you can pull it off, I would entertain the F you showed. It has damage history, but if the repairs are documented well, I wouldn't fear it. That particular plane has some really nice mods to it. The one piece belly and ARI cowling are a major plus. Low time engine and new interior are even more great features. The avionics are dated but if functional, will get you what you are looking for.

You better hurry up and grab it. I may buy it for parts and add all of that stuff to mine to complement my avionics (being posted for Dave because he loves my panel so much);

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[cnoe]

I hope you're not wearing sandals with those socks!

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[3914N]

Hi Cody, welcome to the forum!  I'm new here myself and have found it to be a great and welcoming community.

As a point of reference: I just purchased a '68 G model with basic VFR panel, freshly overhauled engine, 4/10 paint+interior, and no autopilot besides a working PC system.  I paid $36k for it, which was a steal considering both vref and the mooney flyer appraisal came in around $43k.  The F models are more expensive and I doubt you will be able to find one with your requirements for the $35k budget you mentioned.

Performance-wise, my G model is a solid 135-140 ktas cruiser and I get an average of about 10 gph on my 1-2 hour XC flights.  My experience with the F models is that they do about 145-150 knots on the same fuel burn thanks to the fuel injection.

I love my airplane but probably would have gone for an F model if it was in my budget.  The extended fuselage was a requirement for me, otherwise I could have saved a lot of $ and gone with a C model.  If you're primarily flying by yourself and concerned about speed, I would give the E model a closer look.

I'd be happy to go into more detail on anything if you would like.  Happy hunting!

[CJpilot316]

21 minutes ago, 3914N said:

Hi Cody, welcome to the forum!  I'm new here myself and have found it to be a great and welcoming community.

As a point of reference: I just purchased a '68 G model with basic VFR panel, freshly overhauled engine, 4/10 paint+interior, and no autopilot besides a working PC system.  I paid $36k for it, which was a steal considering both vref and the mooney flyer appraisal came in around $43k.  The F models are more expensive and I doubt you will be able to find one with your requirements for the $35k budget you mentioned.

Performance-wise, my G model is a solid 135-140 ktas cruiser and I get an average of about 10 gph on my 1-2 hour XC flights.  My experience with the F models is that they do about 145-150 knots on the same fuel burn thanks to the fuel injection.

I love my airplane but probably would have gone for an F model if it was in my budget.  The extended fuselage was a requirement for me, otherwise I could have saved a lot of $ and gone with a C model.  If you're primarily flying by yourself and concerned about speed, I would give the E model a closer look.

I'd be happy to go into more detail on anything if you would like.  Happy hunting!

As far as a G would go, this is one I've been thinking on:

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/aircraft/Single+Engine+Piston/1968/Mooney/M20G+Statesman/1747779.html

 

[3914N]

1 minute ago, CJpilot316 said:

As far as a G would go, this is one I've been thinking on:

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/aircraft/Single+Engine+Piston/1968/Mooney/M20G+Statesman/1747779.html

 

That's a nice looking G model.  At ~1200SMOH the price is about right.  Looks like it averaged 60 hours per year since the overhaul, which isn't too worrisome unless it spent time as a hangar queen.  Those speed mods are nice- I bet you'll get 140 ktas out of it.

The avionics look old, if you're doing hard IMC flying you might need an upgrade.  I just spent ~$16.5k adding a GNS-430W and GMA-340 audio panel to my G.

Just some thoughts.

[drapo]

4 hours ago, CJpilot316 said:

I fly a Piaggio P-180 as an FO for a charter company. In order to get up to Captain times in a decent amount of time, I'll need to fly extra on my own aside from work.

Ive owned an airplane and flown in Maine for the last 3 years, and worked in maintenance for the last few years. So I do know the costs involved. FIKI and turbo would be nice, but not necessary.

If you want to build time in your plane, I'd stick with the Cessna. Florida to Maine is around 12 hours in a Skyhawk while only 8 in a Mooney... Think about it, that's 50% more flight hours for a one way trip, at that rate, your could get to 500 in 9 months or so...   

[CJpilot316]

40 minutes ago, drapo said:

If you want to build time in your plane, I'd stick with the Cessna. Florida to Maine is around 12 hours in a Skyhawk while only 8 in a Mooney... Think about it, that's 50% more flight hours for a one way trip, at that rate, your could get to 500 in 9 months or so...   

Build time AND go places

 

Ill have 6 days off at a time, and I want to be able to fly home, spend 4 days, and fly back.

[Guitarmaster]

I have a friend flying for the regionals who is getting up against the 1000/yr flight time limit (rest rules) so he can't fly GA. Doesn't sound like you have this issue...

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He can fly GA. He just can't fly for hire

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[gsxrpilot]

12 hours ago, CJpilot316 said:

A little more info on my mission:

80% of my flying will be solo, full fuel, long legs (4+ hours). I'm 5'6 and 155lbs, so that's no problem for me. I may carry passengers on the occasional double date to NY or something. I loved doing that with the Skyhawk.

My job is giving me an 8 day on, 6 day off schedule, basing in Florida. Those six days off I intend to use for traveling and commuting. I'd like a plane that I could get up to Maine with in around 8 hours, and use to travel cross country for visiting friends, etc. I flew my 172 to Colorado and back last month, and I absolutely loved that trip. Im dying to explore further and faster. I also plan to do aerial survey work with it, using the camera system currently mounted on my 172.

My budget is $35,000, but I'm knocking on doors of $45k listings to see what I can do. I am also looking at planes needing work. Knowing myself too well, and owning a plane for several years, I can't do a partnership. I'm too selfish with my toys. And I'd be a horrible partner...I intend to fly a minimum of 500 hours a year in the airplane over the next 2 years to build time for my upgrade to captain. 

The one requirement I've found, per the installation of the camera mount, is that my new bird must have a FIXED STEP. Which means '68 or newer if I'm correct. 

 

 

I gotta say, based on that mission, I think you want a C. 

• If you're 5'6", by the time you slide your seat forward to reach the peddles, there will be acres of room in the back seat of a C or E. I'm 5'10" and have had an adult in the back seat behind me.
• Useful load will actually be more important than backseat leg room. 
• On the rare occasion that you I carry three adult passengers, I've never had anyone complain about the room in the back. And furthermore, they're not paying for the room.
• The 80% of the time you're solo and trying to stretch the miles out, you'll be happy you're not dragging the additional weight and fuselage along for those nonexistent passengers.
• You'll get a lot more C for the same money, than you'll get F or G.
• My 1964 has the retractable step which gives you the camera mount when you need, and the ability to clean it up when you don't.

The wife, the dog, and I flew the M20C from Austin to Durango this week and are solidly snowed in today. That's ok, we're on the Mooney schedule which means we leave when we want and the weather allows. Our C gets us all over the country very efficiently and inexpensively.

[carusoam]

How important is saving money for you..?

Fuel injection makes sense if saving money is important to this project.

- cruising at Carson's speed while LOP, collecting hours of long cross country in IMC, doing as many approaches and types of approaches, at as many different airports as possible, could be a good idea.  The pilot interviews will be more interesting.

- collecting hours circling around in a C150, won't create much to talk about.

What is your plan for the plane when you are done?  Sell immediately or keep forever (decade or more)?

One young pilot around here bought a K for similar experience. Another bought a J.

Look up the effects of density altitude and WnB on whatever plane you select.  Being highly educated will not free you from the laws of physics.

Best regards,

-a-

[CJpilot316]

38 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

I gotta say, based on that mission, I think you want a C. 

• If you're 5'6", by the time you slide your seat forward to reach the peddles, there will be acres of room in the back seat of a C or E. I'm 5'10" and have had an adult in the back seat behind me.
• Useful load will actually be more important than backseat leg room. 
• On the rare occasion that you I carry three adult passengers, I've never had anyone complain about the room in the back. And furthermore, they're not paying for the room.
• The 80% of the time you're solo and trying to stretch the miles out, you'll be happy you're not dragging the additional weight and fuselage along for those nonexistent passengers.
• You'll get a lot more C for the same money, than you'll get F or G.
• My 1964 has the retractable step which gives you the camera mount when you need, and the ability to clean it up when you don't.

The wife, the dog, and I flew the M20C from Austin to Durango this week and are solidly snowed in today. That's ok, we're on the Mooney schedule which means we leave when we want and the weather allows. Our C gets us all over the country very efficiently and inexpensively.

I think you just summed up what I have been thinking, and I even just mentioned to a friend of mine whos a Mooney owner/member here. An M20C would work fine, but I do need the fixed step. I found a '69 C model in Florida I'm looking into. Still waiting on selling the 172, a local friend and previous student of mine has said he'll buy it at my asking price but needs some time. Had an offer today that was $3k below my asking price of $32k.

[CJpilot316]

32 minutes ago, carusoam said:

How important is saving money for you..?

Fuel injection makes sense if saving money is important to this project.

- cruising at Carson's speed while LOP, collecting hours of long cross country in IMC, doing as many approaches and types of approaches, at as many different airports as possible, could be a good idea.  The pilot interviews will be more interesting.

- collecting hours circling around in a C150, won't create much to talk about.

What is your plan for the plane when you are done?  Sell immediately or keep forever (decade or more)?

One young pilot around here bought a K for similar experience. Another bought a J.

Look up the effects of density altitude and WnB on whatever plane you select.  Being highly educated will not free you from the laws of physics.

Best regards,

-a-

The 172 was my "Buy and fly the wings off to get ratings and experience" aircraft. I wanted a faster plane then, but went with a 172 since it fit my mission of building hours at the time. Now that I've established a career in aviation, I want a plane that can be used for more of the things I want to do (like travel with friends and the girlfriend). With my schedule, I could have time to fly all the way around the country between my duty periods if I have a Mooney. But not in the 172. Whatever I buy next I intend to keep for at least 5-10 years. 

[carusoam]

Some of us here use an M20E for the years after the kids have moved out...

Child seats and children are tough in the short body.  I used one car seat and a booster seat early on in my C.

Other things to consider in the 5-10 year time frame,

-a-

[CJpilot316]

Just now, carusoam said:

Some of us here use an M20E for the years after the kids have moved out...

Child seats and children are tough in the short body.  I used one car seat and a booster seat early on in my C.

Other things to consider in the 5-10 year time frame,

-a-

Great advice for sure! I think that'll be quite a while down the road. If there ends up being more than two youngsters, I'll have to look at larger planes anyway. I think I'll cross that bridge when I get there, considering there's none yet and I don't plan on any in the next 5 years for sure.

[bradp]

Welcome to the forum.  Is the need for a retractable step for camera mounting or some other purpose?  Look on the video section of the forum and you'll see that there are plenty of methods to mount a camera.   Personally I'd put the retractable step into "nice to have" instead of "must have" category.  

Otherwise it sounds like an E would suit your needs very well.   You don't necessarily need the extra passenger space, there are a lot of modded Es out there, you're going far and planning to fly a lot, and the ability to go lean will save thousands per year.  For your type of flying see if you can get at least a single axis autopilot, an IFR GPS and most importantly an engine monitor.  Keep in mind the ADS-B BS upcoming.  If your budget is mid 40's it's doubtful that your going to find a bird with fancy glass.  However you should be able to find something with a decently low time engine.  

Good luck in your search.  

[CJpilot316]

19 hours ago, carusoam said:

How important is saving money for you..?

Fuel injection makes sense if saving money is important to this project.

- cruising at Carson's speed while LOP, collecting hours of long cross country in IMC, doing as many approaches and types of approaches, at as many different airports as possible, could be a good idea.  The pilot interviews will be more interesting.

- collecting hours circling around in a C150, won't create much to talk about.

What is your plan for the plane when you are done?  Sell immediately or keep forever (decade or more)?

One young pilot around here bought a K for similar experience. Another bought a J.

Look up the effects of density altitude and WnB on whatever plane you select.  Being highly educated will not free you from the laws of physics.

Best regards,

-a-

The 172 was my "Buy and fly the wings off to get ratings and experience" aircraft. I wanted a faster plane then, but went with a 172 since it fit my mission of building hours at the time. Now that I've established a career in aviation, I want a plane that can be used for more of the things I want to do (like travel with friends and the girlfriend). With my schedule, I could have time to fly all the way around the country between my duty periods if I have a Mooney. But not in the 172. Whatever I buy next I intend to keep for at least 5-10 years. 

 

Its the the fixed step I need. I have approval for installing on a fixed step, but not a retract.

[Bob - S50]

Why do you want a step at all?  And why does it 'have' to be fixed?

Anything hanging out in the wind is drag.  Mind you it is probably only costs you a knot or two at the most, but if it is speed you want, why give it up for something you use a few seconds each flight?

Our J came without a step.  Most adults can get up on the wing without one. For those who can't, we carry a small, lightweight, collapsible stepstool in the baggage compartment.

Bob

[CJpilot316]

6 minutes ago, Bob - S50 said:

Why do you want a step at all?  And why does it 'have' to be fixed?

Anything hanging out in the wind is drag.  Mind you it is probably only costs you a knot or two at the most, but if it is speed you want, why give it up for something you use a few seconds each flight?

Our J came without a step.  Most adults can get up on the wing without one. For those who can't, we carry a small, lightweight, collapsible stepstool in the baggage compartment.

Bob

Hey Bob,

In a previous post I noted that I need a fixed step because I do aerial survey work as a sideline, with an externally mounted computer controlled pod camera. On the 172, we use a bracket that mounts onto the main gear. With a Mooney, the only way is to remove a fixed step, and use the attach points for the step for mounting the camera. This will not work on a retractable step aircraft. 

So the issue really isn't the step itself. In fact, when the camera is off, I probably won't even keep a step. 

-Cody

[Bob - S50]

6 minutes ago, CJpilot316 said:

Hey Bob,

In a previous post I noted that I need a fixed step because I do aerial survey work as a sideline, with an externally mounted computer controlled pod camera. On the 172, we use a bracket that mounts onto the main gear. With a Mooney, the only way is to remove a fixed step, and use the attach points for the step for mounting the camera. This will not work on a retractable step aircraft. 

So the issue really isn't the step itself. In fact, when the camera is off, I probably won't even keep a step. 

-Cody

Sorry, I missed that.  On for photos, off the rest of the time.  Got it.

[DXB]

There's not many M20Gs on the market at any given time, but the ones that come up seem to be nicer on average than the typical vintage Mooneys for sale.  With not much market for them, people may keep and personalize them rather than flip.  There's only two currently on Controller, and they seem to illustrate this point.  One's got a Powerflow, so may recover some of the speed penalty of the carbed O360.in the mid body.   

http://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/list/category/6/piston-single-aircraft/manufacturer/mooney/model-group/m20g

If I had it to do over again, I'd very seriously consider getting one and making it my long-term plane. Don't get me wrong- I love my C, but I wasn't exactly the savviest buyer back then.  

[ArtVandelay]

Hey Bob,

In a previous post I noted that I need a fixed step because I do aerial survey work as a sideline, with an externally mounted computer controlled pod camera. On the 172, we use a bracket that mounts onto the main gear. With a Mooney, the only way is to remove a fixed step, and use the attach points for the step for mounting the camera. This will not work on a retractable step aircraft. 

So the issue really isn't the step itself. In fact, when the camera is off, I probably won't even keep a step. 

-Cody

You can remove the tie down rings on the wings, they are just screwed in, build your own camera mount, I think there are other members that have done this.

[bradp]

Depending on size of the installation use of the tail skid may be appropriate as well.  

[CJpilot316]

On December 22, 2015 at 2:05 PM, carusoam said:

How important is saving money for you..?

Fuel injection makes sense if saving money is important to this project.

- cruising at Carson's speed while LOP, collecting hours of long cross country in IMC, doing as many approaches and types of approaches, at as many different airports as possible, could be a good idea.  The pilot interviews will be more interesting.

- collecting hours circling around in a C150, won't create much to talk about.

What is your plan for the plane when you are done?  Sell immediately or keep forever (decade or more)?

One young pilot around here bought a K for similar experience. Another bought a J.

Look up the effects of density altitude and WnB on whatever plane you select.  Being highly educated will not free you from the laws of physics.

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

Yeah, neither of those would work, the camera is about 2 feet long, 6-8inch diameter and weighs 15lbs. It needs a substantial mounting point. 

[rbridges]

Aren't you worried the Mooney will fly so fast that the pictures turn out blurry?  

[ArtVandelay]

The tie downs rings are designed to hold the 2000lb plane in a severe wind storm, a 15lb camera should be no problem, ditto for air resistance, I assume you wouldn't be trying to fly above the green arc.

I'm not an A&P...you might to ask somebody before making any assumptions.