Electric Flaps Troubleshooting

[Marauder]

I’m hoping I can assess without taking the belly skin off. But, I think it’s inevitable. The way it’s moving, leads me to believe it’s some sort of disconnect like that. 
Both flaps still move (with manual pressure) in sync, so they’re attached. The fact that the flaps dropped after landing makes me think it “jarred” down when the wheels touched. 

To get access to the flap mechanism you will need to remove the belly panel that sits in between the flaps. Little bit of a pain, with lots of screws.


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[GDGR]

Can’t be worse than taking the lower cowl off to get at a starter

Edited January 13, 2019 by GLJA

[Yetti]

3 hours ago, GLJA said:

I’m hoping I can assess without taking the belly skin off. But, I think it’s inevitable. The way it’s moving, leads me to believe it’s some sort of disconnect like that. 

Both flaps still move (with manual pressure) in sync, so they’re attached. The fact that the flaps dropped after landing makes me think it “jarred” down when the wheels touched. 

Try running them all the way down and then see if they come back up.   Gently wiggle the flap and see if that works.   if so clean the limit switches with contact cleaner.

[GDGR]

2 minutes ago, Yetti said:

Try running them all the way down and then see if they come back up.   Gently wiggle the flap and see if that works.   if so clean the limit switches with contact cleaner.

They don’t move with the switch. Once in the ground, engine off, I tried the switch. I could hear the motor engaging, with no movement. There’s zero resistance until it hits their current position  

If you step out, you can lift the flap. Once you let go, it drops back to the position they are in (roughly 20 deg flap).

 

[Yetti]

Well that certainly seems more expensive than a $2.00 can of contact cleaner.   I believe that is a side window motor off a car.  There is a plastic material that degrades in the round part off the motor..   On Ford trucks, I used to pull the broken stuff out and fill them back with polyester resin and cut up fiberglass cloth.   I think they were designed break and not crush your little brother's head in the window.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Yetti

[N201MKTurbo]

13 hours ago, Yetti said:

Well that certainly seems more expensive than a $2.00 can of contact cleaner.   I believe that is a side window motor off a car.  There is a plastic material that degrades in the round part off the motor..   On Ford trucks, I used to pull the broken stuff out and fill them back with polyester resin and cut up fiberglass cloth.   I think they were designed break and not crush your little brother's head in the window.

It is made by Commercial Aircraft Products. It is the same flap actuator used on a lot of Cessnas. It is an aircraft part not a repurposed auto part.

You will see a rubber coupler between the motor and gearbox. it is the most likely culprit if the motor is running but the flaps are not moving.

[GDGR]

22 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

It is made by Commercial Aircraft Products. It is the same flap actuator used on a lot of Cessnas. It is an aircraft part not a repurposed auto part.

You will see a rubber coupler between the motor and gearbox. it is the most likely culprit if the motor is running but the flaps are not moving.

Is it a replacement part? I’m headed to the hangar after lunch to figure it out. Really don’t want this plane sitting for another month for one small rubber part. 

[carusoam]

Also look for both square blocks to be there...

They appear to be the up and down limits... for this system...

They also appear to be held in place with a single set screw...

For all parts mounted on Mooneys... the fine folks, including Dan at @LASAR can help with replacements...

PP thoughts only, I have not seen this system up close at all...

Best regards,

-a-

[GDGR]

Result was actuator spun off the motor. The 40 year old grease was not allowing for smooth travel. 

My guess is it finally seized, and the actuator removed itself. 

1.25 hours of removing belly pan, cleaning grease, and reattaching and it works great. 

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions 

 

Edited January 14, 2019 by GLJA

[Guest]

1 hour ago, GLJA said:

Result was actuator spun off the motor. The 40 year old grease was not allowing for smooth travel. 

My guess is it finally seized, and the actuator removed itself. 

1.25 hours of removing belly pan, cleaning grease, and reattaching and it works great. 

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions 

Did you remove the mounting end cap and clean and repack the gear box as well?

Clarence

[carusoam]

Now that you know how the old grease turns to rocks.... over the decades...

Get a good gander at the tail trim while you are in there... 

They have a similar screw and grease...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic of any sort...

Best regards,

-a-

[GDGR]

21 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Did you remove the mounting end cap and clean and repack the gear box as well?

Clarence

Didn’t repack the gear box. But, annual is in March. I’ll definitely put it on the list to my AME. 

[anthonydesmet]

Resurrecting this thread due to flap issue this past weekend......

 

Left Illinois Saturday to return to home base in Florida.  Flap extension and retraction during pre-flight worked normally.  Flaps on takeoff and retraction airborne worked normally.  Used half flaps on landing for high winds and wind gusts.  During rollout hit the flap switch to bring them up (and assumed they did) until post flight walk around and noticed flaps still in half position.  Turned master back on and cycled switch - no joy and could not here any sign of motor running or engaging...just dead.  Cycled flaps circuit breaker and switch again and no joy moving up or down. Physically put pressure with my hands on flaps to see if there was any play pushing up or down but felt normal to pre-flight.

I didn't try to force anything and have not had time to go back to hanger and start playing with limit switches but plan to this weekend.  Before I do I wanted to get thoughts from the group to help focus my efforts this weekend.

limit switches?, flap switch?, motor?

Model: 1980 M20K

switch - normal 1980 J/K switch on console next to cowl flaps.

[GDGR]

16 minutes ago, anthonydesmet said:

Resurrecting this thread due to flap issue this past weekend......

 

Left Illinois Saturday to return to home base in Florida.  Flap extension and retraction during pre-flight worked normally.  Flaps on takeoff and retraction airborne worked normally.  Used half flaps on landing for high winds and wind gusts.  During rollout hit the flap switch to bring them up (and assumed they did) until post flight walk around and noticed flaps still in half position.  Turned master back on and cycled switch - no joy and could not here any sign of motor running or engaging...just dead.  Cycled flaps circuit breaker and switch again and no joy moving up or down. Physically put pressure with my hands on flaps to see if there was any play pushing up or down but felt normal to pre-flight.

I didn't try to force anything and have not had time to go back to hanger and start playing with limit switches but plan to this weekend.  Before I do I wanted to get thoughts from the group to help focus my efforts this weekend.

limit switches?, flap switch?, motor?

Model: 1980 M20K

switch - normal 1980 J/K switch on console next to cowl flaps.

In my F, I could hear the flap motor engage. I’d either assume wiring, or the motor is kaput. 

Remove the belly skin, check connectivity at the motor. If you have power there, it’s the motor. If you don’t, it’s a wiring issue you’ll have to chase.