Bob_Belville Posted October 9, 2015 Report Posted October 9, 2015 5) There isn't a family on planet earth that wants to sit in any vehicle that long, even if it is going to Disneyworld. 6) Stopping halfway is the usual plan for my family of four. Selecting a plane is going to be a challenge. There isn't enough useful load or speed or efficiency in any one plane. It is going to be challenging to get anyone to commit to spending $200k on a Long Body without the previous experience of a similar plane. The M20E is my outlook for post retirement Mooney travel. Consider that, lower cost. Not cheap. Because having all the updates to keep grandma comfortable in IMC is not inexpensive. The +2 part requires some detailed checking based on the size and comfort levels of all four people. Thoughts that come to mind, -a- +1. I'm retired and I chose a completely modded out '66E in Feb. 2012. Added an IFR panel w GPSS, weather/traffic Nov. 2012. Our NC to MA/ME flights are 2 legs, under 3 hours each, usually LNS to stretch, potty, fuel. Cruise 150 kt plus on under 10 gph. Empty weight is 1675 so we can take anything we can fit in the plane. Manual gear, simple and relatively cheap to maintain - owner assist annuals under 1 AMU. I might treat the old girl to a spiffier paint job to celebrate her 50th year. 4 Quote
Danb Posted October 9, 2015 Report Posted October 9, 2015 Mooney single place plane with L/R tanks...........Approx. 1000 lbs. On most trips we add fuel needed to complete the mission and then adjust wgt. of bags generally if the trip is long we will back off the power to economy which gives us 6 to 6.5 hours plus reserves, point being a Mooney with L/R tanks makes for a real personal airliner. 110 gal...................650 lbs. wife/pilot................300 lbs. light bags............... 35 lbs. Total.....................985 lbs. Quote
gsengle Posted October 9, 2015 Report Posted October 9, 2015 I liked the idea of adding the long range tanks until I realized that stock my Ovation would get me MA to FL nonstop and would allow 6 hours in the air... What useful load do the long range tanks cost even empty? I don't want to give up another pound of my 940 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
Danb Posted October 9, 2015 Report Posted October 9, 2015 Since we all differing objectives, the purchase of the L/R tanks was one of the better items I've ever bought, Syn. Vision being the other. The nice thing about them is you don't have to use them, but there really nice when you do. I figure on all long cross country's if you value your time they end up paying for themselves. But you don't miss them if you've never had them. I guess we're all spoiled. Quote
MyNameIsNobody Posted October 9, 2015 Report Posted October 9, 2015 Ultimate J thread, right? 1 Quote
gsengle Posted October 9, 2015 Report Posted October 9, 2015 Yep the ultimate J is an O Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote
ArtVandelay Posted October 9, 2015 Report Posted October 9, 2015 I'm not an O fan, if I was going big, I'd go turbo with TKS. 1 Quote
gsengle Posted October 9, 2015 Report Posted October 9, 2015 Just don't love that thirsty Lyc Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
M20F-1968 Posted October 9, 2015 Report Posted October 9, 2015 Thanks for the nice comments earlier in the thread. I did my instrument training in a Grumman Tiger. All my time from 50 hrs - 125 was done in Oregon, in actual conditions, dual, working toward my Instrument license. It is a fun little plane, but certainly not as stable nor as substantial as the Mooney. It is a sensitive, slippery plane, but the Mooney is still more stable, feels heavier on the controls but just as sensitive, is more stable and is faster. To its credit, the canopy of the Tiger is fun and easier to get in and out of. For what it is worth, some numbers on my plane are: 10,000 ft = 162 kts true (that is with 90 gallons onboard) 17,000 ft = 170-175 kts true - still testing at this altitude carries 94 gallons. At 160 kts/hr = 14,730 mile range with >10 gallons reserve When you are in the CB club, you can load up on cheap avgas even if you are not taking a long trip. 986 useful load Turbonormalizing makes it a very different airplane than normally aspirated, without the maintenance complexities of turbocharging. Simplicity of the IO-360, not nose heavy. John Breda Quote
M20F-1968 Posted October 9, 2015 Report Posted October 9, 2015 Also, it answer to the first post, I have done all of the speed mods I can think of. It does not have inner gear doors however due to the Johnson Bar. It has all gap seals, one piece belly, J model cowling and windshield, overlapping gear doors, tail side fairings, wing root fairings, hinge covers (except for outer flap hinge covers), Ovation door hardware, NACA side vents, Ovation dorsal fine with NACA duct, retractable step, 1/4" glass. John Breda Quote
Shadrach Posted October 9, 2015 Report Posted October 9, 2015 For what it is worth, some numbers on my plane are: 10,000 ft = 162 kts true (that is with 90 gallons onboard) 17,000 ft = 170-175 kts true - still testing at this altitude carries 94 gallons. At 160 kts/hr = 14,730 mile range with >10 gallons reserve When you are in the CB club, you can load up on cheap avgas even if you are not taking a long trip. 986 useful load Turbonormalizing makes it a very different airplane than normally aspirated, without the maintenance complexities of turbocharging. Simplicity of the IO-360, not nose heavy. John Breda John I think you've added an extra digit there! Quote
Deb Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 carries 94 gallons. At 160 kts/hr = 14,730 mile range with >10 gallons reserve John, Since the world is only ~25,000 miles in circumference, I would have thought that 12,500 mile range would have been enough. Good to know you've planned for contingencies! CarolAnn is going to be very envious! 1 Quote
gsengle Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 I guess sometimes you want to take the scenic route?! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
lfgbrd Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 carries 94 gallons. At 160 kts/hr = 14,730 mile range with >10 gallons reserve I know Mooneys are efficient, but how'd you manage the 1gph?! Quote
PMD Posted October 10, 2015 Author Report Posted October 10, 2015 Thanks for today's input. I am a long way away from coming to final conclusion. I still like the 4 cyl option, even though the costs of going to extreme loom quite large. As I mentioned: it is immediately attainable with later model airplane, but comes with immediate bill as well. Grandma used to sit through one or two fuel stops in Tiger days, so on rare occasions when truly long legs are called for, she is still up for it. As has been mentioned, just having the capacity does not demand that one fills the tanks - and certainly with some of the larger capacities, the back seats are useless without dramatic reduction in range (but not planned as a frequent need for next plane - thus the 2+2 comment). As has been mentioned: you don't miss a lot of fuel capacity if you have never had it. Years of flying in the bush with very few fuel stops available, and a LONG distance to alternates left me with a real desire to have that option, even if rarely used. Quote
ryoder Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 Isn't a heavily modded E more efficient than a J? Find any of those in your searches? There was one one that was modded to the hilt and was cut down to vfr only to reduce weight and antenna drag. It didn't even have wingwalk tape on it. Quote
ArtVandelay Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 Isn't a heavily modded E more efficient than a J? Find any of those in your searches? There was one one that was modded to the hilt and was cut down to vfr only to reduce weight and antenna drag. It didn't even have wingwalk tape on it. Maybe true, less weight, less lift required, less drag. Modern Js have wing tips with internal antennas and ELT antenna inside the dorsal fairing. My only antennas are Coms, transponder, UAT, and WX10. The WX10 probably the least aerodynamic with its square shape. Quote
KSMooniac Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 The E has a lower gross weight than a J, though, so it limits fuel and payload options a bit even if used as a 2 seater. Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk Quote
Shadrach Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) Comparing similar mid bodies. All equipment being the same, I think the F is less than 25lbs heavier than an E. Almost identical Cd. I think the speed differences are over played. Not because I'm biased, but because the numbers won't support it - triple period Edited October 10, 2015 by Shadrach Quote
Bob_Belville Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 Comparing similar mid bodies. All equipment being the same, I think the F is less than 25lbs heavier than an E. Almost identical Cd. I think the speed differences are over played. Not because I'm biased, but because the numbers won't support it.triple period It is not easy to find consistent info. This site indicates that all M20Fs, were 1640 empty and M20E (Super 21) were 1575 empty, but later M20E (Chaparrel) were 1600. (My 1966 E left the factory @ 1611# including at lease 20# of radios.) http://www.pilotfriend.com/aircraft performance/Mooney/41.htm Quote
MyNameIsNobody Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 The Ultimate J is a Long body or an E? Funny. The ultimate J is Bennett's. End of story... (That's how you do a triple period) 2 Quote
gsengle Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 So where can we see photos of the ultimate J Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
Shadrach Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 It is not easy to find consistent info. This site indicates that all M20Fs, were 1640 empty and M20E (Super 21) were 2575 empty, but later M20E (Chaparrel) were 1600. (My 1966 E left the factory @ 1611# including at lease 20# of radios.) http://www.pilotfriend.com/aircraft performance/Mooney/41.htm I don't have our original W&B in front of me. We weigh in around 1675lbs right now. What's your current empty weight? Quote
Bob_Belville Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 I don't have our original W&B in front of me. We weigh in around 1675lbs right now. What's your current empty weight? Hum, 1675.5 That's with one piece belly (10), bladders (30), speed brakes (9) STEC A/P & Trim (14) = ~ 63# So everything else, additional avionics, lighter starter, alternator, offset. Quote
Shadrach Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 Hum, 1675.5 That's with one piece belly (10), bladders (30), speed brakes (9) STEC A/P & Trim (14) = ~ 63# So everything else, additional avionics, lighter starter, alternator, offset. So much for being lighter! Seriously though, I've seen pics of your bird! The only thing I have on you is a 1/2 pound and some extra room in back. Your's is far nicer than mine. Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.