Advice dealing with hail claim, insurance adj. paint, etc

[garytex]

I have a 67 F with a full boat of SWTX mods. It's 150 knot airplane. The paint is in good shape. 1400 smoh. Over the last three years all of the little things that need to be attended to on an older plane have been done. It's nonglass Ifr, with an autopilot and a JPI . Insured for 55,000, stated value .

Couple of months ago it got hailed. I have two estimates. Both include $12,000 to reskin the control surfaces. $34k from Tejas Aero a known excellent local painter, and around 24 from a small timer guy that does usually acceptable work . The adjuster got a quote from someone that he recommended based on the pictures he took which was "uneconomic to repair". That was from a well regarded painter in the Denver area .

The ouchie is is that the insurance company is saying well geewhiz, there's no hail damage on the bottoms of the wings, we're only going to give you 66% of the estimates. And you can't take the big estimate money and then go get painted at the cheaper guy. So to keep the airplane, which I would really prefer to do, I have to take a $10,000 hickey, and a damage history.

I also believe that I could get a check for 55 gees, but then what do I go buy? An unloved 201 for $65k, and that will swallow another $20 AMU in the first year? An unmodded F that's 10 knots slower than my F, 15 knots slower than the 201, would cost maybe $50k and will also eat the first year $20 k.? I'm feeling kind of boxed in.

I guess I need to know how, and how hard to push the insurance adjuster and company. I have been straight and reasonable with them so far, but wonder if it may be time to get prickly. You guys have any experience, strength and hope to share?

Thanks, Gary

[Browncbr1]

If it's just the control surfaces, had you thought of just getting used ailerons, etc and having them painted? If I were you, I'd keep the plane and just try to fix it within your ability. If the insurance won't pay up, then I would find another broker as soon as it's over with.

[kmyfm20s]

Who the insurance company so non of use use them. I not sure I understand the 66% since the estimates are to repair the hail damage and some paint to match.

[Alan Fox]

I just went through this , if the payout plus the salvage is more than the agreed value , they will total it.....what they do is estimate the salvage value , and subtract it from the insured value, and that is the max they will pay.......Sucks Ass......I just took 21k for a 34 K claim , but I wanted the plane , and being in the parts biz it was an easy decision..... 

[garytex]

browncbr1

Great idea, I hadn't thought of that. I'm also considering seeing if I can't fill and paint the ailerons and they may possibly still balance and I wouldn't have to reskin them

Kmyfm20

The insurance company may do right by me in the end, I don't want to paint them any particular color in till the story comes to a close. If they turned out to be bad actors, I'll let everybody know

74795

Thanks for sharing that formula with me it will help me understand where the limits are. That's almost exactly where my cost numbers are I have not got them up to 24K yet. And I'm not sure what I'll do even if I can get there. and I'm not sure what I'll do re: take the total loss money or keep the plane even if I can get there. It's a toughie.

[Marauder]

Gary -- the ailerons can be re-skinned for roughly $1,500 for the pair . The elevator can be flipped over and the undamaged side put up (Don Maxwell told me that I could do this). As for the rest of the hail damage, the new light weight fillers have come a long way from the old "bondos" we used to patch our 1972 Plymouth Furys. In fact, the same shop that painted Alan's Bonanza told me that they can use it on flight surfs like the flaps.

There is more labor involved to correct the damage, but it shouldn't be a "totaled".

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[Ron McBride]

Call Laser, the had used controls in stock yesterday, or could reskin yours.   Paint quotes here in CA very from 11500 to 16000.  The inexpensive shop did a friends Cherokee and it was beautiful, they are also going to do the M10 for Mooney.

 

I would fix it, it is a known quantity plane.

 

I am putting mods on my F next month, reseal the tanks and new paint very soon.  It does not make financial sense, but it is my plane and money.

 

Ron

[MB65E]

Sorry to here about your airplane. These airplanes are truly awesome! However, I really don't get the market. You painted the correct picture with regards to the market. So the thing is scrapped and you get a check. Now what do you go buy? That's where the real value of working and improving the airplane comes from. You couldn't touch the next nicest one for the amount they will sign the check for. I have been asked what would I buy if I had to sell ours. There is not a single airplane that will replace its form fit and function for the same price. This is why a lot of people don't carry a hull. But, If anything happened to ours, I'd take the money and go buy a cherry fabric wing Luscombe.

As for the repairs, I'd try and fix it. I would not fill the ailerons. They are aft CG with just a few coats of paint on them. The light weight fillers are good, but not when it's probably at the limit already.

-Matt

[garytex]

Marauder

Flipping the elevator is a totally choice idea.

I'm getting quotes of about 1500 each to skin the ailerons, where can I find them scanned for 1500 the pair?

9154

Another great idea. I had thought that maybe it might be smart to try to call junkyards but I hadn't thought about getting a used control surfaces from laser.

Mat

The fill instead of reskinning of the control surfaces idea came from a pretty smart IA that I know but he's not a Mooney guy.

Has anybody played that particular game with Mooney ailerons?

[Marauder]

Gary --

Airframe Components by Williams

www.airframecomponents.com

260-347-0807

I spoke to them 2 years ago. Lasar also had a set of used, unpainted ailerons. They wanted $6k for them... Not in the range for this CB.

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[MB65E]

I took my right aileron off to be reskinned due to some hangar rash I wanted to take care of. I had a nice used aileron I had with great paint and minimal filler. It was at the limit of 9.2 oz at the trailing edge. I stripped the aileron and started over. (Don't quote me on the oz limit, please look it up, but I remember it was at the aft balance limit)

Williams Aero in North east Indiana can do wonders in their sheetmetal shop. Factories send their flight controls to them for repair! Awesome place!!

-Matt

[MB65E]

Haha!! That's the place Chris!!

Thanks,

-Matt

[garytex]

And Matt, you hit the nail on the head about a replacement airplane. If you're already in the Mooney it's damn difficult to generate any improvement. I don't think there are very many modded Fs like mine out there . My mission is about 100 flights of about two hours duration bopping around Texas every year. I'm a strictly VFR pilot so don't necessarily need the glass that would be in one of the more expensive 201s. For a replacement airplane, if I could buy a steam gauge 201 that would do 160 kn for an extra 10 gees that seems like about right to me. Isn't the benchmark for adding speed $1000 a knot pretty much everywhere? :-)

A friend of mine offered me his good shape 160 horse twin Comanche for 55 K, but it won't get in and out of my 1600 foot ranch strip unless I want to wish it off below blue line and stagger over our ranch manager's house, so I think I'll stick with one motor :-)

[garytex]

Marauder

Are these the guys? This is the prices that I got from the cheapest so far ReSkinner

Thank you for your RFQ for Hail damage flight controls for a Mooney M-20F.

We can reskin the Rudder, Elevators, Ailerons, and Flaps. This would include all the top skins for each component and interior in epoxy prime.

Prices for these units are as follows:

$1650.00 reskin rudder

$1650.00 per elevator reskin

$1650.00 per aileron reskin

$2150.00 per flap reskin

If you require paint add $650.00 per flight control JetGlo one color.

Price will NOT include transportation.

Current lead-time is two weeks.

Please email or call if you require additional information or schedule reskin.

Best Regards,

Nathan Whetzel

ACW, Inc.

PH: 260-347-0807

www.airframecomponents.com

Maybe they quoted high to my adjuster, and I can do better by calling them

[garytex]

That's a big price jump in two years, I wonder what's going on

[garytex]

MB65E thanks for sharing your experience

[Marauder]

Marauder

Are these the guys? This is the prices that I got from the cheapest so far ReSkinner

Thank you for your RFQ for Hail damage flight controls for a Mooney M-20F.

We can reskin the Rudder, Elevators, Ailerons, and Flaps. This would include all the top skins for each component and interior in epoxy prime.

Prices for these units are as follows:

$1650.00 reskin rudder

$1650.00 per elevator reskin

$1650.00 per aileron reskin

$2150.00 per flap reskin

If you require paint add $650.00 per flight control JetGlo one color.

Price will NOT include transportation.

Current lead-time is two weeks.

Please email or call if you require additional information or schedule reskin.

Best Regards,

Nathan Whetzel

ACW, Inc.

PH: 260-347-0807

www.airframecomponents.com

Maybe they quoted high to my adjuster, and I can do better by calling them

I called them as an owner and they quoted me $1500 for the pair (one side only). Perhaps it is their "insurance price". I wouldn't do the flaps. They are not considered flight surfaces and can be filled. I would flip the elevator and just do the ailerons.

How is the rest of the plane? The wings are pretty hefty. I have some skin damage on the fuselage but it is fairly light.

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[garytex]

Oh I see, by pair you mean both the top and bottom skins of an individual aileron as a pair.

It's nice to hear good things about Williams.

Rest of the plane has modest size hail damage, mostly on the top although the wind blew the hail in from the right side and there are one or two dings on the fuselage side and similar on the vertical stabilizer. There are two places on the wings where hail hit near a rib, the paint actually cracked.

[jetdriven]

I called that place when we had our hail claim. When comes down to it , they do NOT guarantee the controls to be straight when you get them back. For that reason and they fact they are only half of new price we bought new ones. To tell you how difficult these things are, one arrive from the factory with a 1/4" bow in it on the trailing edge side, the other was damaged in shipping the outboard corner was bent up. I ended up driving to kerrville to get the replacement set.

The elevators after a year search found two that were good. The reason we didn't simply flip them was they are still damaged. The aircraft goes into a hail claim database and if you ever back your plane into a pole it otherwise damage an elevator they will not pay for it. It was already paid once and not repaired.



Fwiw we had he exact same claim. 2 new elevators. 2 new ailerons. Fill dents on flaps. And new paint. It was over 30k.

[KSMooniac]

I know at one time Don Maxwell had a guy in DFW that built his one jig to re-skin ailerons successfully.  You might contact him and see it that is a possibility.  With some advance scheduling, you might even be able to fly the plane up there and perhaps pick up/install the ailerons the next day.

[pwhicks]

Would that 201 wing recently posted be an option?

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[KSMooniac]

Would that 201 wing recently posted be an option?

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From the pics posted so far, it doesn't look like it has any ailerons or flaps, but perhaps they're on a shelf.  Buying, transporting, and changing a wing will be expensive in any case, and probably only suitable for someone with rampant wing corrosion with an otherwise good airframe.

[garytex]

Thanks for all the advise guys.

Another question, what is the effect of a hail claim damage history? I assume that it is a price hickey going forward.

I'm starting to get the feeling that from a strictly financial standpoint I probably should total it.

[Browncbr1]

Thanks for all the advise guys.

Another question, what is the effect of a hail claim damage history? I assume that it is a price hickey going forward.

I'm starting to get the feeling that from a strictly financial standpoint I probably should total it.

These old planes aren't getting any more abundant. Every year some crash or rot away. Good airframes like you seem to have aren't getting any easier to find. If I were you, I would just accept that it's not perfect situation. Crap happens to all of us. If you try to trade this problem away, then you will likely be getting many more problems that will be surprises later. It seems that you know your plane well and have it setup how you like it. For most of us, that takes years and a lot more money. Just be patient and find some good used control surfaces and just fly it meanwhile. Get what you can from the insurance company, then cut them loose. Seems like your broker isn't helping you, which is what they are paid to soon my opinion.

Life is too short... Don't give up the plane you love because she got a few bruises. It sounds like even with the bruises, you still have a very fine plane and people would be lining up to buy it.

[garytex]

You're right about the benefits of "the devil you know". I've spent many thousands of dollars bringing cylinders, the mags, the hoses, the flap jackscrew, the hydraulic cylinder, and all of those expensive etcetrras into condition. The question for me is do I put another $10,000 into it to complete the paint job that the insurance will not completely pay for, and then also the hail damage history which I do not know what that might cost me, and take a check for 55, with the possibility of purchasing it back at salvage. Anybody ever done that?