I'm sorry, but I did not order TOAST!

[Hank]

We lawyers here in the states have higher testosterone levels than those foreign lawyers. Makes us more argumentative and want to fly Mooneys!

Argue all you want, I'll just fly my Mooney away.

Hey, where did "Have no fun" go???

[mooniac15u]

Schroedinger's while point is that you won't know if the cat is alive or dead until AFTER you let it out of the bag / trunk / closet / wing. Merely observing the system can create changes; if you don't believe that, think about your high school classes when the teacher was there vs. out in the hallway . . . Except he was busy proving that this happens in physical systems, too, especially with subatomic particles.

 

Schrodinger's point was that the cat is simultaneously both dead AND alive inside the box. He initially described the experiment to point out the apparent absurdity of quantum mechanics allowing for this in particles.

[carusoam]

In case anyone missed Schrödinger's cat...

http://mooneyspace.com/topic/14068-the-dreaded-base-to-final-turn/page-8#entry190327

Don't open the trunk,

-a-

[Hank]

Then there's this:

[aviatoreb]

Forget his cat - didn't Erwin Schrödinger die?  So who is going to decide what is his cat's superimposed state in the box if he isn't there too look?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_a_tree_falls_in_a_forest

[Hank]

I always thought the tree question ended, "did it make any noise?" and the whole thing turned on the distinction between sound and noise being a judgement call by people, none of whom were present . . . Wiki seems to not discuss this version, getting bogged down in Scientific American citations instead. Makes me wonder what Sheldon would say? OMG, WWSS!!!

[aviatoreb]

I always thought the tree question ended, "did it make any noise?" and the whole thing turned on the distinction between sound and noise being a judgement call by people, none of whom were present . . . Wiki seems to not discuss this version, getting bogged down in Scientific American citations instead. Makes me wonder what Sheldon would say? OMG, WWSS!!!

 

Schrodinger would say the tree unobserved is in a quantum superimposed state of standing and fallen.

[cliffy]

Back to the story line-

I once made a maint test flight on a 737 that I will never do again. Picked it up in Costa Rica

after a heavy check and the company needed it back for a flight in 12 hrs. Did a preflight and

then launched across the Gulf Of Mexico AT NIGHT for MKCI. About half way cross it dawned on me-

WHAT IF? Never did it again no matter the need.

On my Mooney its a run up sans cowl and then a short flight around a tight pattern and open up

again to look see.

[jlunseth]

I would have a hard time counting the number of times maintenance people have done these kinds of things to me on my aircraft. Mechanics doing a pre-buy annual deliberately signed off aa rust inspection after painting over the rust they found on frame tubes. There were many other major omissions. Another mechanic, asked to check a new oil leak on the nose gear, signed off on the plane and we blew most of the oil out of the quick drain, had to make an emergency landing in Canada. Yet another mechanic left a bushing out of a newly installed alternator coupler. Line guy hooked a 28V cart to my 12V system. Etc.

I have but one mechanic I trust and who has never tried to kill me. He is an hour away and I don't even let anyone else change the oil. Someitmes I have to use other mechanics to get the plane flying, but I do more than a quick runup with the cowl off, I got out to the plane and check on the work, coach them and verify it is all done right including the safeties.

Lawyers won't help. I am one. It is not worth the time, effort and money.

It is the biggest single discouraging cost and safety issue in my experience with GA. Wish it could be fixed, but they always have an excuse and the FAA is worthless on this issue.

[Bob]

2 week update: Looks like the independent adjuster has presented a package of information to the underwriters for the claim.  Includes my needs, suggestions for repairs and statements from everyone involved.  Now in a holding pattern for a unknown time frame.

 

How much fuel do I have in the tanks?

[AndyFromCB]

Forget his cat - didn't Erwin Schrödinger die?  So who is going to decide what is his cat's superimposed state in the box if he isn't there too look?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_a_tree_falls_in_a_forest

 

It doesn't matter. Whether or not the cat is alive, you still owe the annual registration fee to your local government...

 

On the subject of attorneys, watching a good one work a deposition is like watching Michael Angelo paint the sistine chapel. Watching a bad one (about 80% of them) is like watching Sarah Palin attempt to form a sentence. I love depositions…Yes, I am a sick individual, but I've always enjoyed a good lawsuit. It's a game of chess and you get to play with very expensive pawns. 

[aviatoreb]

It doesn't matter. Whether or not the cat is alive, you still owe the annual registration fee to your local government...

 

On the subject of attorneys, watching a good one work a deposition is like watching Michael Angelo paint the sistine chapel. Watching a bad one (about 80% of them) is like watching Sarah Palin attempt to form a sentence. I love depositions…Yes, I am a sick individual, but I've always enjoyed a good lawsuit. It's a game of chess and you get to play with very expensive pawns. 

 

I can see Russia from my house.

[Mooneymite]

It is the biggest single discouraging cost and safety issue in my experience with GA. Wish it could be fixed, but they always have an excuse and the FAA is worthless on this issue.

 

It's one of those no-win phenomena.

 

If we yank the certificate from every A&P who has ever made a mistake, there would be no one to work on our airplanes, or if you could find one, you  couldn't afford him.

 

Pilots and mechanics are prone to make mistakes....it's the human condition.

[AndyFromCB]

Schrodinger would say the tree unobserved is in a quantum superimposed state of standing and fallen.

Is is still Obama's fault if Fox News is not there to observe?

[jlunseth]

It's one of those no-win phenomena.

 

If we yank the certificate from every A&P who has ever made a mistake, there would be no one to work on our airplanes, or if you could find one, you  couldn't afford him.

 

Pilots and mechanics are prone to make mistakes....it's the human condition.

 

You know, I'm sorry, but I just don't agree.  I agree that humans will make mistakes.  But in every walk of life we learn to use procedures to catch mistakes.  As a lawyer, I do that particularly with new lawyers who work with me.  As a pilot, we all learn strategies to overcome our own propensity to make mistakes.  If you have half a brain you figure out pretty quickly how to prioritize so that the truly big, life threatening mistakes don't happen and you are down to things like not noticing that the flip-flop switch did not change frequencies when you pushed it the first time.  It is more important in IMC to watch the AI than it is to check the flip-flop every time you hit it.  

 

What I have seen in GA is rampant, wholesale life-threatening mistake making by mechanics, and some of it has been deliberate bordering on fraudulent.  Maybe my experience has not been the norm, but I don't trust much of anything to most mechanics anymore.

 

The thing about yanking certificates is that if you yank some in the worst cases, word gets around, and suddenly people who were letting things pass, don't let them pass anymore. 

[AndyFromCB]

You know, I'm sorry, but I just don't agree.  I agree that humans will make mistakes.  But in every walk of life we learn to use procedures to catch mistakes.  As a lawyer, I do that particularly with new lawyers who work with me.  As a pilot, we all learn strategies to overcome our own propensity to make mistakes.  If you have half a brain you figure out pretty quickly how to prioritize so that the truly big, life threatening mistakes don't happen and you are down to things like not noticing that the flip-flop switch did not change frequencies when you pushed it the first time.  It is more important in IMC to watch the AI than it is to check the flip-flop every time you hit it.  

 

What I have seen in GA is rampant, wholesale life-threatening mistake making by mechanics, and some of it has been deliberate bordering on fraudulent.  Maybe my experience has not been the norm, but I don't trust much of anything to most mechanics anymore.

 

The thing about yanking certificates is that if you yank some in the worst cases, word gets around, and suddenly people who were letting things pass, don't let them pass anymore. 

 

I guess I've never had this level of experience. Every now and then, especially when dealing with large repair stations, I have felt I have been overcharged for the work performed, all aircraft mechanics I have found and worked with over the years have been nothing but professional and fully understanding that my life is in their hands. I had an issue once with my local guys on the engine mount but in retrospect it was an issue of communication and different standards between large repair station that did my annual and my local guys who did the engine R&R.

[Guest]

You know, I'm sorry, but I just don't agree.  I agree that humans will make mistakes.  But in every walk of life we learn to use procedures to catch mistakes.  As a lawyer, I do that particularly with new lawyers who work with me.  As a pilot, we all learn strategies to overcome our own propensity to make mistakes.  If you have half a brain you figure out pretty quickly how to prioritize so that the truly big, life threatening mistakes don't happen and you are down to things like not noticing that the flip-flop switch did not change frequencies when you pushed it the first time.  It is more important in IMC to watch the AI than it is to check the flip-flop every time you hit it.  

 

What I have seen in GA is rampant, wholesale life-threatening mistake making by mechanics, and some of it has been deliberate bordering on fraudulent.  Maybe my experience has not been the norm, but I don't trust much of anything to most mechanics anymore.

 

The thing about yanking certificates is that if you yank some in the worst cases, word gets around, and suddenly people who were letting things pass, don't let them pass anymore.

I'm only guessing, but I'd bet that your charge out rate for your law practice is a bunch higher that you've ever paid for maintenance on your plane? Shop rates and wages in aviation are generally way behind most other trades. What does an apprentice lawyer make versus an apprentice A&P?

If I could charge my customers what my lawyer and accountant charge, I could have a great training program for my apprentices. As it is now it takes 48 month to attain a licence in Canada.

Just look at the posts on here proclaiming how cheaply I did this or that to my plane, or how little my A&P charged to sign out this or that. Is it really any surprise that this is the current state of the trade? There are too many amateurs running around with licences they have little right holding.

Clarence

[jlunseth]

you make my point Clarence. But it is not about the money or how much they charge. What I am talking about are major errors that endanger lives. I am really tired of having to fly my way out of A&P mistakes.

As I said, I have one who has never tried to kill me. Sometimes the job is not perfect, sometimes it feels like it costs to much, sometimes the log entry could be better. But when it comes to life threatening mistakes, he does not commit them. Ever.

[Guest]

you make my point Clarence. But it is not about the money or how much they charge. What I am talking about are major errors that endanger lives. I am really tired of having to fly my way out of A&P mistakes.

As I said, I have one who has never tried to kill me. Sometimes the job is not perfect, sometimes it feels like it costs to much, sometimes the log entry could be better. But when it comes to life threatening mistakes, he does not commit them. Ever.

Yet, there is always the possibility.

Clarence

[Hank]

I'm sorry, Dave, can you repeat the question? I couldn't hear you over the talking heads' comments about how beautiful and quiet the forest is. They were yelling over what sounded like tree-falling noises, with large, pale green ear muffs on.

[Bob]

Here is my 4 month update:

After negotiating with the insurance company, waiting for them to pay, waiting on the engine overhaul and waiting on the mechanics to get all the details together, it looks like I am about one week away from getting Papa Zulu in the air again.  It's been a long and interesting road!

[Marauder]

Here is my 4 month update:

After negotiating with the insurance company, waiting for them to pay, waiting on the engine overhaul and waiting on the mechanics to get all the details together, it looks like I am about one week away from getting Papa Zulu in the air again.  It's been a long and interesting road!

Hopefully you installed that engine analyzer you were talking about.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[DonMuncy]

Here is my 4 month update:

After negotiating with the insurance company, waiting for them to pay, waiting on the engine overhaul and waiting on the mechanics to get all the details together, it looks like I am about one week away from getting Papa Zulu in the air again.  It's been a long and interesting road!

Do you mean a normal "week" which is generally considered to be 7 days, or an aviation "week" that can vary from 14 days to 6 months.

[Bob]

I installed a JPI 830 four years ago and feel it is "required" equipment.

Sorry Don, I was not very clear.  For the last month and a half or two, I have been saying a week more, weekly.  Now in my post above I am thinking a couple more days so I think it is now down to a true 7 day week??

So to answer your question, it should be a couple more aviation days.

[thinwing]

Well.Bob...I take it you will end up with a newly overhauled engine and maybe prop (if there was metal contam)....I think you are/were luckier than you think....at least you didnt launch off into 600 ft overcast and end up a smoking hole in the ground for your estate to deal with the forgetful mechanic