Bob Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Well here is the short version of a very long story, since it is hard to type while crying. I just completed a 30K annual with gear overhaul, engine top and installation of a new MT Propeller. Unfortunately my aircraft was released with a kickback problem. During the first 12 hours, I experienced kickback about every 3rd start. While discussing this with the shop, they stated that the cause is from the light weight prop. Mt Propeller & Continental state that it is a ignition related issue due to ignition timing being too advanced during startup. Jump forward 12.6 hrs and I have a kickback and break the starter adapter. The A&P at Cleveland Jet Center removes and reinstalled the overhauled adapter. I drive 7 hrs to Cleveland, balance my tab, complete my preflight, startup, running preflight and taxied to depart 6 at CGF. During taxi I lost oil pressure, moved from taxiway and shutdown. I removed the upper cowl and found the cause quickly to be a oil line that was not reconnected to the starter adapter. Yep, they forgot to reconnect the oil line but signed the plane off as airworthy. I added 6 qts of oil and read 6.5 on the dipstick. Restarted engine, monitored proper oil pressure and cycled the prop about 12-15 times before prop responded. The next day a A&P from another airport inspected the engine, remove the oil filter, cut it open, saw a lot of metal and stated that it was not airworthy. But I saved my good luck for what is important. I did not depart into 600 overcast with 1/2 qt of oil and an open oil line. Yes, I will fly again! I have learned a few things from this experience so far. 1) My new personal minimum requires a VFR flight after ANY maintenance. 2) After a aircraft is signed off as returned to service & airworthy, it does not guarantee that it's airworthy. 3) Vintage motorcycles are not the only mechanical things that "mark their turf". 4) In aviation, 30K does not stand for 30,000 service. 5) I will never own a plane without a modern engine monitor. This is what I feel warned me and kept me on the ground. So looks like I am down for a few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Thank god your here to tell us your horrible story..yes I believe we have an angel on our shoulder Bob..hang in there.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooneyBob Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Hmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB65E Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Wow, that's pretty crappy. That means that Cleveland didn't even run the airplane after the starter drive change. Lame. I try to stick to a simple rule that has kept me inline as an IA. All post mx engine runs are done with the cowl off..Also, I prefer to fly the airplane once, before pax, and or released to the owner. Good luck, thanks for sharing. -Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Well here is the short version of a very long story, since it is hard to type while crying. I just completed a 30K annual with gear overhaul, engine top and installation of a new MT Propeller. Unfortunately my aircraft was released with a kickback problem. During the first 12 hours, I experienced kickback about every 3rd start. While discussing this with the shop, they stated that the cause is from the light weight prop. Mt Propeller & Continental state that it is a ignition related issue due to ignition timing being too advanced during startup. Jump forward 12.6 hrs and I have a kickback and break the starter adapter. The A&P at Cleveland Jet Center removes and reinstalled the overhauled adapter. I drive 7 hrs to Cleveland, balance my tab, complete my preflight, startup, running preflight and taxied to depart 6 at CGF. During taxi I lost oil pressure, moved from taxiway and shutdown. I removed the upper cowl and found the cause quickly to be a oil line that was not reconnected to the starter adapter. Yep, they forgot to reconnect the oil line but signed the plane off as airworthy. I added 6 qts of oil and read 6.5 on the dipstick. Restarted engine, monitored proper oil pressure and cycled the prop about 12-15 times before prop responded. The next day a A&P from another airport inspected the engine, remove the oil filter, cut it open, saw a lot of metal and stated that it was not airworthy. But I saved my good luck for what is important. I did not depart into 600 overcast with 1/2 qt of oil and an open oil line. Yes, I will fly again! I have learned a few things from this experience so far. 1) My new personal minimum requires a VFR flight after ANY maintenance. 2) After a aircraft is signed off as returned to service & airworthy, it does not guarantee that it's airworthy. 3) Vintage motorcycles are not the only mechanical things that "mark their turf". 4) In aviation, 30K does not stand for 30,000 service. So looks like I am down for a few months. Yikes! Does this mean you need a new engine? VFR for departure after maintenance is my rule too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyDave Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Wow - this experience is the kind of thing that gives me the willy's! I'm glad for your "good luck". I would NEVER depart into IMC 1st flight after maintenance! Keep us posted on your progress. Have you begun the conversation with the shop that left the oil line off about a new engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 I'm no mechanic... But, the scat tube in the same area is not looking like it was installed correctly either.... The vacuum(?) line's addel clamp is not near the end of the tube that it is holding in place either... Looks like the job was not completed, things were left near where they belong. Not reconnected properly. Good luck with the upcoming challenges. Glad you are on the ground reporting the situation. Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketAviator Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 So sorry to hear your story but more glad to hear your alright. Thank God you did not take off into IMC with those oil lIne issues. If anything good I came away fron these posts with several good points for anytime ANYONE works on my plane! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 I'm with Matt on this one. We run up every airplane with the cowls off after maintenance, then cowl after a leak check. When all is good the plane is run up again for a systems check of anything we may have effected, even then things go wrong. I'm assuming the shop insurance will be covering things from here on in? Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awful_Charlie Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 that sucks Bob - I do hope you get some recompense from the shop or their insurance, but at least as you have realised, you're here telling us about it which is far more important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 I'm glad you are here telling your story! Wow! Talk about dereliction of duty! I would not hesitate to hit them hard with legal action. Need not be nice to these kinds of clowns. Seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted June 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 The FBO/Jet Center is handling it on a very professional level and their insurance is working promptly to cover the costs related to their negligence. I hope things stay smooth till my plane is returned to service. The A&P that caused the issue, has stated that he did not start the engine after the repair. So no checking for leaks, vacuum, electrical short or proper operation of the overhauled starter adapter or new starter. Yes it needs an engine. I also now see the true benefit of the JPI 830 engine monitor that I installed a few years back. The JPI warned me of the problem before I departed. Thanks to JPI! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Bob, I'm terribly sorry to hear about your experience. Especially since I am an A&P. It leaves a black mark against all who worked hard to get the license and have pride in their workmanship. Given no extenuating circumstances, this mechanic needs to lose his license. When I was a military helicopter pilot my AC would walk into the hangar after work was completed on the ship we were to fly and ask, "who worked on it." The mechanic(s) would raise their hand. He'd say "OK get in and we'll test fly it". When I became an AC I did the same thing. No doubt the workmanship was top notch once they knew their ass was on the line. Maybe we should all do that. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Bob, I'm terribly sorry to hear about your experience. Especially since I am an A&P. It leaves a black mark against all who worked hard to get the license and have pride in their workmanship. This mechanic needs to lose his license. When I was a military helicopter pilot my AC would walk into the hangar after work was completed on the ship we were to fly and ask, "who worked on it." The mechanic(s) would raise their hand. He'd say "OK get in and we'll test fly it". When I became an AC I did the same thing. No doubt the workmanship was top notch once they knew their ass was on the line. Maybe we should all do that. There is nothing like strapping one's soft pink butt in beside the pilot to help clear the mind and realize the awesome responsibility involved. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonal Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Any post maintenance and we do a cowl off extended run and then first flight stays within gliding distance to the field. This is why I will always do owner assist. I'm so glad it showed before you took the runway and they are going to make good on their mistake. Keep us informed on how it's going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Peace Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 "OK get in and we'll test fly it". When I became an AC I did the same thing. No doubt the workmanship was top notch once they knew their ass was on the line. Maybe we should all do that. Good luck in finding a mechanic who will test fly an airplane with you. they almost all agree to do it right up until it is time to go fly and then suddenly they are needed to do a repair on the other side of the field or they get called away for something etc........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Peace Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 The A&P that caused the issue, has stated that he did not start the engine after the repair. So no checking for leaks, vacuum, electrical short or proper operation of the overhauled starter adapter or new starter. I do not know how many times from GA to 121 I have seen a mechanic change a part like a landing light and walk away when done without even checking to see if it works. This goes on with fuel pumps radio boxes etc.......I hate to say it but it is mostly with mechanics in the USA.....go to Seoul or Hong Kong and it is a totally different experience. If it took you to remove 30 or 40 screws in a housing to get to a recog or landing light would you not want to see if the lamp is OK before putting the screws back only to have to take them out again and put back again....... I would love to look inside some of these A&P's cars. They say you tell what is going on inside someones brain by seeing how they keep the inside of their car. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Good luck in finding a mechanic who will test fly an airplane with you. they almost all agree to do it right up until it is time to go fly and then suddenly they are needed to do a repair on the other side of the field or they get called away for something etc........ The A&P who operates out of my field will always ride along with a customer after he completes work on their airplane. He has even flown it solo with the owners permission. He's never too busy to take care of his most valuable assets..his customers. If you can't find one to do that for you....get another mechanic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 I do not know how many times from GA to 121 I have seen a mechanic change a part like a landing light and walk away when done without even checking to see if it works. This goes on with fuel pumps radio boxes etc.......I hate to say it but it is mostly with mechanics in the USA.....go to Seoul or Hong Kong and it is a totally different experience. If it took you to remove 30 or 40 screws in a housing to get to a recog or landing light would you not want to see if the lamp is OK before putting the screws back only to have to take them out again and put back again....... I would love to look inside some of these A&P's cars. They say you tell what is going on inside someones brain by seeing how they keep the inside of their car. Geez Jim, Sounds like you've had some bad experiences with some A&P's. Sorry to hear that but I must say, I'm a retired airline captain with 36 years flying 121. I can't remember having such a poor experience. Sometimes things could not be fixed and, MEL permitting, was placarded but almost always we dispatched without a lot of trouble. I think our mechanics did very well given the incredible pressure of dealing with airplanes at the gate and not much time to fix them. I do remember one of our 747's getting a C check in Hong Kong. They actually took a spare main tire out of the cargo hold to weight it! I'm not sure if our American counterparts do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 I do not know how many times from GA to 121 I have seen a mechanic change a part like a landing light and walk away when done without even checking to see if it works. This goes on with fuel pumps radio boxes etc.......I hate to say it but it is mostly with mechanics in the USA.....go to Seoul or Hong Kong and it is a totally different experience. If it took you to remove 30 or 40 screws in a housing to get to a recog or landing light would you not want to see if the lamp is OK before putting the screws back only to have to take them out again and put back again....... I would love to look inside some of these A&P's cars. They say you tell what is going on inside someones brain by seeing how they keep the inside of their car. Jim, With all due respect not all maintainers are useless and incompetent. Just as with pilots there are good and not so good one? I have no fears flying in airplanes maintained in my shop, there are however pilots I would not fly with. In this case luckily Bob is alive and able to relay the story for everyone to learn from and his airplane will live to fly again. Without knowing more details we're all second guessing the circumstances. Maybe the mechanic was called away, or shift change, his wife called who knows what, momentary distractions can be fatal, I'm sure he knows it now. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Peace Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 BillC I don't have the luxury of being at a gate if that clues you in on what I do. My level of safety is not equal with what you received. My life has been proven by a few lobbiest to be worth less then yours. It is amazing what a briefcase full of cash slid under the table can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N601RX Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 I'm surprised that the engine was able to develope normal oil pressure with the line off. My IA/CFII has flown with me many times after work including the time after we done a field overhaul and install. He always says you fly the plane and I'll keep an eye on everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 I'm surprised that the engine was able to develope normal oil pressure with the line off. My IA/CFII has flown with me many times after work including the time after we done a field overhaul and install. He always says you fly the plane and I'll keep an eye on everything else. Without being able to look at the engine, it is possible that the line left off is the scavenge line from the turbocharger, hence oil pressure would not drop until there was no oil left to make pressure. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted June 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Thanks everyone for the thoughts and concerns! 601RX, I had 73psi at start up and several minutes after, then it dropped very, very fast when the pump started sucking air. I was surprised also. Clarence, I have viewed the oil flow diagram for my engine, yes the oil line runs from the turbo to the starter adapter. It is the exit line for the turbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Fox Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Probably a blessing in disguise , running it a minute after the oil pumped out didn't put metal in the filter , or damage the internals.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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