Short field landing comfort level

[Bravoman]

I apologize if this has been the subject of a previous thread, but I was wondering what folks comfort level was landing the Bravo on "short" strips. I realize that there is some subjectivity in that definition, but for me it's anything around 2700-2800 '. I have done it at St Augustine and for me it is the absolute shortest I would do, particularly with any kind of obstacle at the approach end.

I also fly a fixed gear Saratoga, which is nothing more than a big Cherokee, and I am comfortable down to about 1800'.

That is a fairly big delta on my comfort level as between the two aircraft, but I figure it is in part due to my relative inexperience in the Mooney, in which I now have about 120 hrs.

Regards, Frank

[gjkirsch]

Frank

 

For me it depends as much on the weather at the arrival airport as the length of the runway.  I have landed at 2200 ft runways on nice days with no wind or a headwind.  I won't go below 2800 ft on any type of approach. There was a recent thread at basing a Bravo at a 2500 ft airport and it is a good read

 

Gordon

[midlifeflyer]

As long as it is within the airplane's takeoff and landing performance envelope, "short" is in the eye of the beholder.

 

It's all about training, experience level and perception. Without looking at the Bravo's takeoff performance charts If all you do is strips well over 3,000' anything you perceive to require extra technique is going to feel to a challenge, even if you've always landed on the first third of those 3,000' runways.

[Danb]

Frank I think it's awesome you have set your personal limits, it's someting we all an I believe most of us do. Eg some will be comfy., doing approaches to minimums and some will set differing limits. That's a sign ad a competent pilot...

[aaronk25]

Given your low time in the plane your doing fine. Maybe even ahead of the curve. These planes can be a bit intimidating to pilots who arnt use to the "slippery" mooney. You will get it figured out.

[FoxMike]

Frank,

An awful lot of variables are at play during landing.  In round numbers 3000' is a reasonable (conservative) distance.  If you are landing where the DA is above 8000' add another thousand feet.  A runway too short can cause you to slide off the end or screw up the approach and really damage the airplane and perhaps the passengers.

[donkaye]

I apologize if this has been the subject of a previous thread, but I was wondering what folks comfort level was landing the Bravo on "short" strips. I realize that there is some subjectivity in that definition, but for me it's anything around 2700-2800 '. I have done it at St Augustine and for me it is the absolute shortest I would do, particularly with any kind of obstacle at the approach end.

I also fly a fixed gear Saratoga, which is nothing more than a big Cherokee, and I am comfortable down to about 1800'.

That is a fairly big delta on my comfort level as between the two aircraft, but I figure it is in part due to my relative inexperience in the Mooney, in which I now have about 120 hrs.

Regards, Frank

 

You should feel comfortable landing on fields as short as 2,360 as in Oceano in California with the Bravo.  If not, then you definitely need to go up with a Mooney specific instructor who has a lot of time in the Bravo.  I won't sign anyone off on the airplane until we go into Palo Alto at 2,443 feet.  It's all about airspeed control and slope management.  On Friday coming back in to San Jose after getting the plane washed over at Reid Hillview, I touched down on the threshold and turned off 600 feet (just past the first 500 foot marker) later with little braking.  My approach speed was 68 knots, I was reasonably heavy, and had a couple of knot headwind component.  That speed was determined by my AOA--and I wasn't even using the short field approach speed of 1.2 Vso.  I would not have used the 68 knots approach speed speed without the AOA.  I personally always assume a short field and adjust speed accordingly even though San Jose, for example, has 11,000 feet.  My landing video could be of benefit (www.donkaye.com).  Ask others if they found it useful.

[M20S Driver]

You should feel comfortable landing on fields as short as 2,360 as in Oceano in California with the Bravo.  If not, then you definitely need to go up with a Mooney specific instructor who has a lot of time in the Bravo.  I won't sign anyone off on the airplane until we go into Palo Alto at 2,443 feet.  It's all about airspeed control and slope management.  On Friday coming back in to San Jose after getting the plane washed over at Reid Hillview, I touched down on the threshold and turned off 600 feet (just past the first 500 foot marker) later with little braking.  My approach speed was 68 knots, I was reasonably heavy, and had a couple of knot headwind component.  That speed was determined by my AOA--and I wasn't even using the short field approach speed of 1.2 Vso.  I would not have used the 68 knots approach speed speed without the AOA.  I personally always assume a short field and adjust speed accordingly even though San Jose, for example, has 11,000 feet.  My landing video could be of benefit (www.donkaye.com).  Ask others if they found it useful.

 

+1 for Don's video.  

I am based in palo Alto and have cut back significantly on my landing distance after watching Don's video.  It was interesting to see him approach Porterville airport at around 70 knots in the video and and land. 

[N201MKTurbo]

All it takes is practice. When I first got my Mooney in 1984 there were a lot more flying contests then there are now and they all have spot landing contests. After entering a few of these I started making every landing a spot landing contest. I found that the slowest steepest approach you can do will yield the most consistent spot landing. This is also what is necessary for short field landing. The bonus is you will significantly increase the life of your tires and brakes.  

 

After 20 years of commuting you get consistent. About 1/3 of the time I would be landing on 4L at KCHD. I would always make the turnoff at Hotel which was the closest turnoff to my hanger it was 1400' from the end of the runway. I would approach at 70 KTS. power to idle on 1/2 mile final, flare about 100' before the end of the runway, touch down on the leading edge of the numbers. If I had to use brakes to make Hotel I considered it a bad landing. If there was a headwind I would have to add power to taxi to Hotel.

 

I'm not suggesting that everyone run out and use this procedure especially flaring before the runway. I'm just saying that the Mooney is capable of incredibly short landings if done right.

[Bravoman]

I appreciate the input. I find the Mooney to be a fantastic airplane to land--like on rails and I grease it on consistently, more so even than the Cherokee. My approach speed is always 75-80 kias and I guess I need to keep practicing a little slower over the fence, particularly when the airplane is light

Don, I would love to spend a few days with you later this year. I have a college buddy who lives in Santa Clara so it would be a dual purpose visit to the "left coast"!

Regards, Frank

[donkaye]

I appreciate the input. I find the Mooney to be a fantastic airplane to land--like on rails and I grease it on consistently, more so even than the Cherokee. My approach speed is always 75-80 kias and I guess I need to keep practicing a little slower over the fence, particularly when the airplane is light

Don, I would love to spend a few days with you later this year. I have a college buddy who lives in Santa Clara so it would be a dual purpose visit to the "left coast"!

Regards, Frank

 

I look forward to it.

[rbp]

1kt of airspeed = 100ft of tarmac

 

be on speed for your weight! 

[Yooper Rocketman]

I flew into this airport last summer with my Rocket.  The "required before you land" video's didn't look too intimidating, and calling and describing your experience before getting authorization to land started getting me to wonder.  But considering down wind on 27 has a mountain between you and the airport, and if your gear is not scraping the top of the trees coming (oh, you can't approach from straight on either, about a 20 degree angle to final), you will have a real challenge getting it down.  That approach was my first VFR go around in a real long time.  Runway 9 looked and felt like a cake walk after the first approach (no significant wind).

 

http://transylvaniacommunityairport.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=51&Itemid=54

[Hank]

Transylvania looks like fun! Not too far from Mom & Dad, either, and a bigger airport.