What are your questions????

[gsxrpilot]

If I were trying to sell my Mooney to you, I would be able to pretty easily answer all of your questions.  And I wouldn't be insulted to be asked.  Of course, I could try and lie about it, but the logs would expose that.  I don't see the problem asking and would be happy to be asked.

 

Just my $0.02

[bonal]

Truly there are many questions to be asked and has been pointed out some questions are better answered by folks that have nothing to gain or lose by the answers. the best person to answer those questions is you based on all the sources you can use. At some point you must decide to pull the trigger or pass there are no shure things in life or in airplanes even something that is brand new can fail.

[xcrmckenna]

If I were trying to sell my Mooney to you, I would be able to pretty easily answer all of your questions. And I wouldn't be insulted to be asked. Of course, I could try and lie about it, but the logs would expose that. I don't see the problem asking and would be happy to be asked.

Can you think of any other questions you would want to know from the owner? Or expect to tell the person that would be looking to buy your plane?

[carusoam]

An example of my experience buying my O...

(1) The logs will tell you about all of the known items...

(2) The PPI will tell you about the unknown items... Expect them to test all of the sub-systems for you. Every switch, every radio, every panel, every support, every device, fill the tanks to the top, fly it IFR(in IMC is OK).... Have a discussion with your PPI person to let him know what level expectation you have....

(3) Transition training will tell you about how the plane runs, flies, and how it is supposed to be flown...

(4) A good relationship with the old owner/broker would be nice. There will always be a question like 'what does this blue light indicate?'

The more complex and expensive the plane is, the more important the first three items are. The fourth item is icing on the cake.

If you like to read logs (I do) these are the heart and soul of a good machine. They can also be the fabrication of a thief.

(1) Good photographs,

(2) Good description of the plane and equipment.

(3) Emailed copy of the scanned logs.

Most people with an I-Device can email a copy of the things. I would expect it to be a highly wanted task for them to take care of.

Some planes may not be sold because of the owner.

Some planes may not get bought because of the buyer.

There are so many birds in the sky...?

There is always some risk in buying used machinery. These steps USUALLY ferret out the weird and expensive ones...

There may be some cost savings in buying from a private owner that you don't know.... (Is it enough?)

Try to find somebody on MooneySpace that is moving to their next Mooney. PPI is still required....

Try to identify a plane that has been underwater to test out your skills...?

Hint: Use the word 'submarine' in your search...

My priority at the time: I paid extra to eliminate as much risk as I could...

I also used http://allamericanaircraft.com/Default.htm

My thoughts,

-a-

[gsxrpilot]

When I was looking at my plane to buy it, I asked about the type of flying that the owner did.  This got the owner talking about flying the bird from Dallas to San Diego with his wife and two kids. He told me about the other types of flying he did and various trips he had made. I asked him what he liked about the panel and what he used most or most appreciated having. I also asked what he would do next to the plane if he was keeping it. All of these things just helped me to get a sense of the plane and the owner. It also gave me a sense of how the plane was looked after.

[Andy95W]

When I was looking at my plane to buy it, I asked about the type of flying that the owner did.  This got the owner talking about flying the bird from Dallas to San Diego with his wife and two kids. He told me about the other types of flying he did and various trips he had made. I asked him what he liked about the panel and what he used most or most appreciated having. I also asked what he would do next to the plane if he was keeping it. All of these things just helped me to get a sense of the plane and the owner. It also gave me a sense of how the plane was looked after.

This goes hand-in-hand with a good piece of advice I got. The first flight in the airplane you may buy should be with the owner flying. This does 2 things:

1.). It gives you a chance to see how he treats the airplane

2.) it gives you a chance to see if everything is working properly. It isn't easy looking at all the dials, radios, and instruments if you're paying all of your attention to flying.

[Bob_Belville]

Logs books can be pretty terse. What was done to the plane is documented but there is no requirement to document an event that might have necessitated the work. A one piece belly might suggest asking about a gear up. My plane sat for over 10 years after an off field landing when it was only 3 years old. The first of 3 log books (it will be 50 year old later this year!) records a routine 100 hour inspection on the left side page, the right side page, from 11 years later, describes work to the gear and empennage, some of it done by "parties unknown". 

[BigTex]

Reviewing log books is like an archeological dig building a picture of the planes life events. My plane turned 50 last October and I just started book 5 for the airframe. I went back and created a spreadsheet that itemizes events of interest. That way I have a way to quickly see when work was done.

[Bob_Belville]

Reviewing log books is like an archeological dig building a picture of the planes life events. My plane turned 50 last October and I just started book 5 for the airframe. I went back and created a spreadsheet that itemizes events of interest. That way I have a way to quickly see when work was done.

Yeah, I have a very large excel workbook. I find it very helpful to get dates and details. The official physical Adlog records fill up a 4" 3 ring binder.

[zx6rrider]

And sometimes things get left out of log books.... I went and looked at an F this weekend, took an IA I used to work for and a friend. After opening up a few panels, it appears that both wings have had alot of work done to them. Nothing that we saw in the logs explained it. Some of the ribs and spars had primer in between them, some didnt. Light bucking marks on the top skin and to top it off, the left outer wing skin was not aligned right, had and obvious angle to it when you stood at the end and sighted down the leading edge. This plane has been owned by the same people for almost 30 years, as far as I understood there was no damage history to it other than a prop strike (not gear up). Needless to say I walked

 

As for the questions; I'm with you, I call and get as much info as I can before I go trekking across the state or country to look at an aircraft that I have no interest in. I've weeded out a few others before I finally decided to take the time to look at this one. I learned a good bit on this go but still lost alot of time and some money. At least I'm not sitting on a plane that I'm not happy with

 

Good luck with your search...

[FlyDave]

Thanks for all the responses and I understand that dropping those questions on someone without introducing myself with a little bit about myself would be "odd" even though one bit of advice I've read on here is don't fall in love with the plane till it is yours.

I do introduce myself and try to give the seller a little info on me. I give them my contact info and let them know they can contact me at their convenience. the first few planes I had looked at I informed them my mooney knowlage was about zero. So please expect I will ask ignorant questions. Then I would tell them I have a few questions and if they would mind if I sent them, and they could answer when they had a chance.

But in a little defense of my questions I thought at the end of the day the ownership and responsability of the plane rests on my shoulders and mine alone. I thought one of the points of MS was to help self teach us and to get as much info as we can about our planes and pass that knowledge on to others. I guess I have read many posts on here about people not knowing the condition of their planes and them getting upset at either a&p's or other because their plane is not airworthy now, or annuals that cost them a great deal because they didn't have ms to help them in the buying process or know trouble spots that come with buying a mooney.

One of the reason I ask if the plane was local came from this forum someone said you have more people you can ask about the condition of the plane from mechanics, and people that hang out around the airport. Before the person that is selling it now. And yes the follow up question on the logs if they are on digital format is could they email them to me.

I guess I just figured most airplane owners would know pretty close to the times and or the answers to most of those questions anyways and if someone was selling their plane they might expect a possible buyer would aske them questions rather than look at it "well I bought the plane at one point in time so you should have no reason not to buy it now" mentality.

I'm sorry if I have offended people with the questions I have. I am just trying to be as an informed buyer as I can in my pursuit to buy the best plane I can and not rely solely on what a mechanic says at a ppi. Because there has been plenty of threads on here where buyers had a ppi and then the first annual came and were shocked at what they bought, or have been flying for the past 6 months.

I am in No way trying to learn from people's mistakes but take the lessons they have learned and posted on here to heart and use them to my advantage and know as much about my plane inside and out. And I thought that's what I was doing. But I will do my best with questions I ask in the future

 

I don't have a problem with any of the questions you ask. I asked many of the same questions of the owners when I was looking for planes. I have a word doc with all the questions I asked (trying to find that doc) and had one filled out for every airplane I was interested in.

But the logs can tell you a lot about a plane. Obviously maintenance completed but also hours flown per year, oil change frequency, recurring issues, etc. I also have a spreadsheet that I use to record info from the logs and list all maintenance so I can can sort or search it as needed. This is pretty handy because one tab is a list of all items needing periodic maintenance (mags, fuel pumps, tires (I have ~350 hours on my mains!) etc) and with a cell that lists tach time I know right away how many hours I have or have left on each item.

I'll see if I can find clean copies of these docs and post them in the downloads section.

Also, why wouldn't you try to learn from other people's mistakes? I absolutely would and do!

[xcrmckenna]

I don't have a problem with any of the questions you ask. I asked many of the same questions of the owners when I was looking for planes. I have a word doc with all the questions I asked (trying to find that doc) and had one filled out for every airplane I was interested in.

But the logs can tell you a lot about a plane. Obviously maintenance completed but also hours flown per year, oil change frequency, recurring issues, etc. I also have a spreadsheet that I use to record info from the logs and list all maintenance so I can can sort or search it as needed. This is pretty handy because one tab is a list of all items needing periodic maintenance (mags, fuel pumps, tires (I have ~350 hours on my mains!) etc) and with a cell that lists tach time I know right away how many hours I have or have left on each item.

I'll see if I can find clean copies of these docs and post them in the downloads section.

Also, why wouldn't you try to learn from other people's mistakes? I absolutely would and do!

That is great to hear, I would like to see those documents if you can track them down and post them. I'm sure they will help myself and future buyers. I'm just as interested in the ways people maintain their planes after they spent their time in finding the right bird for themselves.

 

And I was just trying to elaborate or reword it on my posts so people didn't think I was going off half calked, and not think that because others have made mistakes I wont. I just wanted those that have made mistakes know I appreciate the time they took to post their learning experience and I will do my best to remember it. I know it is hard to get a feel for someone on these forms and don't want to burn any bridges. Specially since all I have is a car right now.....