Tommy Posted January 3, 2015 Author Report Posted January 3, 2015 Don, I saw the press photo of that new Acclaim. There are at least 5 yet to be completed partial airframes sitting behind it. I think the Chineses are more than capable of putting an Acclaim together - wether or not to the same quality of Kerrville's is debatable. Quote
scottfromiowa Posted January 3, 2015 Report Posted January 3, 2015 Quality aside, your vintaged M20 is very unlikely be supported at all, buddy! NOPE Because, let me spain it to ya, YOU and your old Mooney represent zero profitability to the new Chinese owners. NO S#$% AGAIN....I got that one...BUDDY. But your Mooney was valued by people in Kerrville to the point that they continued to roll out parts for you. AND OTHERS SUCH AS CHINESE WILL CONTINUE TO ROLL OUT PARTS...LET ME SEE, WHAT MOONEY PARTS HAVE I NEEDED IN OVER A DECADE OF OWNERSHIP? FUEL O-RINGS, SHIMS......UM......UM..... Now you tell them to pack their bags and go to Kansas? AMONG OTHER OPTIONS THAT EMPLOYEES HAVE USED OVER THE NUMEROUS TIMES MOONEY HAS STOPPED PRODUCTION, LAYED OFF EMPLOYEES AND RISEN FROM THE ASHES LIKE A PHOENIX TO SPOOL IT UP AGAIN. Quote
jrwilson Posted January 3, 2015 Report Posted January 3, 2015 So all this speculation might be the result of a Chinese non-aviation business magazine's bad reporting. Just recently, mooney announce they had just completed the paperwork necessary for transferring/exporting a Mooney acclaim and were approved to change the N number to the Chinese equivilant registration type. Maybe this factory in china is just a completion/delivery facility. I would think there would need to be some china specific placards/limitations installed. Just because it is in some magazine no one has ever heard of doesn't mean it is true. Check sources please. 1 Quote
Tommy Posted January 3, 2015 Author Report Posted January 3, 2015 The issues are 1) quality of the new Mooneys. It doesn't take a lot - maybe a few crashes - before our friends refuse to fly with us. 2) support to existing / vintage Mooneys. I think it would be minimal or non-existent. Soon you won't be able to speak to someone like you would now with Kerrville asking for parts / advices. Time to brush up your Mandarin, guys! Quote
jrwilson Posted January 3, 2015 Report Posted January 3, 2015 http://www.mooney.com/news/mooney-international-granted-validated-type-certificate-caac-delivers-new-m20-acclaim/ Quote
jrwilson Posted January 3, 2015 Report Posted January 3, 2015 That us the press release from mooney (mooney.com) about there approval for export to china... Sources people... Quote
jrwilson Posted January 3, 2015 Report Posted January 3, 2015 That us the press release from mooney (mooney.com) about there approval for export to china... Sources people...[/quote Damn typos... That IS the press release...about THEIR approval... Hate typing on iPhones ... Quote
flyboy0681 Posted January 3, 2015 Report Posted January 3, 2015 No Gary, it wasn't obvious to everyone. Here is one response to my prediction that things will move to China... "If the Chinese bought Mooney to start pilot training in China, they bought the wrong company. The Mooney Acclaim and Ovation are terrible trainers IMO" Two recent replies which is what my point was all about in the first place: If I'm understanding DonMuncy's reply, he didn't feel that manufacturing would be going to China. And Tommy said he naively thought they would continue to keep assembling them in Texas. It wasn't obvious to them. Quote
Tommy Posted January 3, 2015 Author Report Posted January 3, 2015 See attached Don't think those partial airframes are there for placards Quote
flyboy0681 Posted January 3, 2015 Report Posted January 3, 2015 See attached That is one ugly paint scheme. Quote
jrwilson Posted January 3, 2015 Report Posted January 3, 2015 And just to clarify, the mooney press release referred to exporting acclaims made in kerrville... Quote
DonMuncy Posted January 3, 2015 Report Posted January 3, 2015 I didn't say that production would not go to China. I don't think they have done it yet. I don't see them buying a factory in Kerrville and very quickly build a factory in China to turn out the same plane. An assembly only facility, maybe. Like I said, I may be proved wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. Quote
jrwilson Posted January 3, 2015 Report Posted January 3, 2015 See attached Don't think those partial airframes are there for placards Looks kinda photoshopped...I pulled up www.mydrivers.com and it didn't look super reliable. See on the right wing of all the planes all the way back? Same guy at same position.... Again kinda suspect. Remember that mooney pilot center website that made the rounds last year? Mooney billionaires airport in china...all photoshopped... Quote
flyboy0681 Posted January 3, 2015 Report Posted January 3, 2015 I didn't say that production would not go to China. I don't think they have done it yet. I don't see them buying a factory in Kerrville and very quickly build a factory in China to turn out the same plane. An assembly only facility, maybe. Like I said, I may be proved wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. In that case I stand corrected. Quote
DaV8or Posted January 3, 2015 Report Posted January 3, 2015 No Gary, it wasn't obvious to everyone. Here is one response to my prediction that things will move to China... "If the Chinese bought Mooney to start pilot training in China, they bought the wrong company. The Mooney Acclaim and Ovation are terrible trainers IMO" I think I said that. I stand by that now as well. The Ovation and Acclaim are terrible trainers. Clearly they recognize that and that's why there is this upcoming M10. I think my point was, buying Mooney to build trainers for the Chinese market is stupid. I stand by that too. The Chinese bought Mooney for two reasons. The American brand and a legacy to point to. In other words, they need street cred to sell in China, so they bought some. I may have opined that they would not build M20s in China, IDK, but I never would have said that they would not build Mooneys in China! That is of course pretty obvious. Chinese investors have no interest in pouring money into American companies to make American companies great, they want to make Chinese companies great. It is a gradual process, but the move to China has begun. The cheapening of the brand has begun. I agree with Scott though to a degree. None of this really matters to me personally. I will not be buying a new M20, or even an M10 for that matter. I can not afford new airplanes. If I were ever to trade my Mooney, it is most likely to be to an experimental. Quote
DaV8or Posted January 3, 2015 Report Posted January 3, 2015 We the old vintaged Mooniacs are now done for. And that includes you, Scott Let's not get all melodramatic now. We are not done for. We don't need factory parts or support to continue flying our planes. Used parts, aftermarket parts, STCs and owner produced parts will do us just fine. The owners and operators of dozens of obsolete and orphaned airplanes prove this out. It's done all the time. I have no fear of this in the future no matter what happens with MAC. Quote
DaV8or Posted January 3, 2015 Report Posted January 3, 2015 Oh the Horror!!!! No doubt Continental and Lycoming are crating up machines as we speak and heading for the docks Well, Continental likely is... Quote
DaV8or Posted January 3, 2015 Report Posted January 3, 2015 That is one ugly paint scheme. Agreed. Quote
gsxrpilot Posted January 3, 2015 Report Posted January 3, 2015 I don't see any downside here. Without Chinese investment, Mooney is dead and gone. If this investment prolongs the Mooney's in Kerrville for 5 years or 10 years or 2 years, it's upside. I'm not afraid of Chinese airplanes either. Much like American manufacturing, the Chinese can make cheap crap for people who want to buy cheap, but they can also make very high quality products for those willing to pay for it. I'm sure that the inevitable "Chinese" Mooney will be just as safe and any airplanes made here in the US. Finally, I'm happy that friends of mine who just happened to be born Chinese, but dream of flight just like I do, might someday have access to GA like we have here. I'm sure the passion for flight is not unique to a particular race or culture. Here in the US we've been so fortunate to have had the conditions to foster innovation and invention that has lead to the GA opportunities of today. And having traveled extensively and lived abroad, I can say I've met people all over the world who dream of the ability to fly like we do here. This has got to be a step in the right direction for GA world wide. BTW... I just got back from a flying trip in Mexico. It was a "free flying" trip as in hang gliding and paragliding. There were close to 100 pilots in town from all over the world. Pilots are pilots, and pilots need to fly. 3 Quote
flyboy0681 Posted January 3, 2015 Report Posted January 3, 2015 I don't see any downside here. Without Chinese investment, Mooney is dead and gone. If this investment prolongs the Mooney's in Kerrville for 5 years or 10 years or 2 years, it's upside. I'm not afraid of Chinese airplanes either. Much like American manufacturing, the Chinese can make cheap crap for people who want to buy cheap, but they can also make very high quality products for those willing to pay for it. I'm sure that the inevitable "Chinese" Mooney will be just as safe and any airplanes made here in the US. Finally, I'm happy that friends of mine who just happened to be born Chinese, but dream of flight just like I do, might someday have access to GA like we have here. I'm sure the passion for flight is not unique to a particular race or culture. Here in the US we've been so fortunate to have had the conditions to foster innovation and invention that has lead to the GA opportunities of today. And having traveled extensively and lived abroad, I can say I've met people all over the world who dream of the ability to fly like we do here. This has got to be a step in the right direction for GA world wide. BTW... I just got back from a flying trip in Mexico. It was a "free flying" trip as in hang gliding and paragliding. There were close to 100 pilots in town from all over the world. Pilots are pilots, and pilots need to fly. Well said. What I can't grasp is the Chinese government allowing their own citizens to fly within their borders. They are notorious for keeping things under tight control and pleasure flights don't make sense to me. Just reading articles from Around the Worlder's show just how strict they are about their airspace. Quote
DaV8or Posted January 3, 2015 Report Posted January 3, 2015 See attached Don't think those partial airframes are there for placards The more I look at that photo, I realize that that "factory" may just be a paint facility. It makes sense. Either ship finished Mooneys to China in shipping crates and then do reassembly, or ferry them, but either way send them unpainted and do the final paint in China to the customers desires. This way the customer gets the paint they want and the paint job is pristine and can have a painted in "B" number registration. I may not be wrong yet. They may not be making M20s in China after all. Quote
Tommy Posted January 3, 2015 Author Report Posted January 3, 2015 Agreed. I envy those wealthy Chineses that want to fly arguably one of the best GA planes ever made as long as the quality is up there (again, no certainty here since FAA has no control over it once all manufacturing is done in China) But I wouldn't envy anyone else who wants to buy one in the future only to find out that they are no longer certified in his/her own countries. And I think it would hurt doubly bad if you are an American. Ad you are right, there can only be upside for this - until you can't get the parts or buy a new Mooney M20... Quote
tony Posted January 3, 2015 Report Posted January 3, 2015 I don't see any downside here. Without Chinese investment, Mooney is dead and gone. If this investment prolongs the Mooney's in Kerrville for 5 years or 10 years or 2 years, it's upside. what's the upside? please explain it to me. If Mooney would have went under, the design data would have been put in the public domain and we all could have made replacement parts. Now I don't know if they are a real airplane company or not. Its in some limbo state. Do you really think they care about my 50 year old airplane? Quote
Alan Fox Posted January 3, 2015 Report Posted January 3, 2015 The reason Mooney keeps failing , is because they have never made a true four place aircraft , The Chinese are smart enough to realize this and are creating new types as we speak.....Perhaps had Mooney not went under a dozen or so times and been solvent enough to have kept the TBM type cert , they may have survived , OH WELL they did not , Fast forward , if you think that the Chinese cant improve the build quality of an aircraft that is built on the same tooling for the last 50 plus years , you need to wake up and smell the Coffee..... I love Mooneys , I love flying them , would I pay similar money for a new Mooney verses a New Bonanza or Cirrus or C206 or Piper Matrix...... NO FUCKIN WAY .....When you can put 4 adults , and four hours fuel in a new Mooney ,than maybe that will change.......Im sure this post will be very unpopular here , but it is what it is...... Quote
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