Freeflight ADS-B

[amillet]

Have any of you installed the freeflight ads-b transceiver? If so, how about a Pirep.

[furledd]

I just did it.

 

978 transceiver with internal WAAS and wifi module interfaced to a 327 transponder and Garmin 430W. 

 

Just picked up plane today, but noted some issues with the wifi module sending the data to the Ipad and my Android tablets (i have each)

 

So its back to the avionics shop early next week to work out the bugs.

 

Its the 4th one that shop has done, and the first one with a 430W.

 

More to report later next week. By then, and spending a day that shop watching and asking questions, i may be a semi "expert"
on this - info is hard to find on the internet for sure.

[Marauder]

I just did it.

978 transceiver with internal WAAS and wifi module interfaced to a 327 transponder and Garmin 430W.

Just picked up plane today, but noted some issues with the wifi module sending the data to the Ipad and my Android tablets (i have each)

So its back to the avionics shop early next week to work out the bugs.

Its the 4th one that shop has done, and the first one with a 430W.

More to report later next week. By then, and spending a day that shop watching and asking questions, i may be a semi "expert"

on this - info is hard to find on the internet for sure.

Thanks for the information on this. I am looking to install one as well to display weather & traffic on my Aspen. What are the apps that the WiFi box is supporting? I saw on their site they have their own but had a list of future compatible apps.

[amillet]

The avionics shop I contacted has a 4 month backlog for installation and said demand for the hardware has resulted in delivery delays. I was quoted $3,450 plus $1800 - $2200 for installation.

[furledd]

I can add more info on which apps will work, but supposedly IFly, Avare, and their own Freeflight app will all work right now, and a few more in the next few months coming, once i get the wifi working I will let you all know.

 

It cost about $3500 as amillet above says (special price) + 3 days labor + I had to have a digital encoder installed to replace my analog,  and also opted for 2 blade antennas instead of stick and ball. I did not get diversity - cant imagine that's needed on a Mooney and its almost $1000 more. Total came out closer to $6200.

 

The Garmin alternative was about $1000 more and I was concerned about the closed architecture at Garmin - you are stuck with only what they want you to use for apps and don't let anyone else tie into their system.

[Gary0747]

Anybody considered NavWorx or L3 (not yet released) as a viable alternative?

I also wonder why Sarasota Avionics advertise the Freeflight XVR as primarily a VFR unit?

[Bill Dunn]

the XVR currently works with

 

Wing X Pro

iFly

ADS-B view by freeflight

ekneeboard

Avare (android)

 

they have about 6 more that are pending and they are open to suggestions.

 

 

I had a customer request a quote on the NavWorx box and that was the first we had heard about it. when I contacted them it seemed like that unit is very similar to freeflights.

[Ragsf15e]

Furledd -

 

Just curious, why did you get the one with the internal WAAS GPS if you already had the 430W?  couldn't you use the 430W as your WAAS position source?

[furledd]

Ragsf15e:

 

I was told that I could have used the 430W for a source, but Freeflight has a special deal on till the end of the year that gives you the Rangr + internal GPS + wifi for less cost than just the Rangr would normally be, so I took the package.

 

If someone has a standard 430 they would need to upgrade it to 430W (how much is that these days $5k?) or get the much cheaper GPS source as an option in the Freeflight unit. 

 

Just got the Mooney back today - finally all the bugs are worked out. Gives me Traffic on the 430W, and Traffic, Weather, and Airport conditions Info (metars and the like) on the IPad.  I used the ADSB View Freeflight App and also tried the IFly GPS app and it worked well. It seems there may be a problem with having more than 1 app connected at once though. Every time I connected a second app the first seemed to lose signal. Shutting down to only 1 app got the remaining one communicating again. Like to know if that is always the case ?

 

I also set up eKneeBoard now to connect to Freeflight but just figured out how to do that at home, have to go fly to see how it works.

 

Havent tried Foreflight yet since my trial subscription has expired - I may get a subscription to try that later this month but it seems that Freeflight wont talk to Foreflight as I read it above?

 

I talked to the FlyQ EFB folks at Seattle Avionics (my usual preferred app in the past) and they said communication with the Freeflight is being investigated... but nothing has been announced at this point. Hoping that's coming soon.

 

Also going to try out the Android Nexus tablet next time again with Avare - I tried it briefly a week ago while troubleshooting and the traffic display was really nice! Color coded , more details, good information, so I am up to keep experimenting to see how that one works.

[rbs4159]

I had the FreeFlight FDL-978-XVR with WiFi and internal GPS installed in my '68 Ranger in September. The installation seemed to go OK, although it took awhile (it was this installer's 2nd installation and the 1st one also has problems) and the installer never could figure out the post-installation configuration settings by following the installation manual. So, I called FreeFlight's tech support, and we were able to clear all 5 or 6 fault messages. In early October I flew to/from Reno and experienced no fault messages. After that flight I requested the FAA ADS-B Compliance Monitoring report - they reported no problems - their e-mail said, 'All looks good' and the report itself had no red blocks which indicate a fault. A couple of weeks later on a local flight, the internal GPS refused to acquire a position fix during a 1.5hr flight, even though my nav GPS units were fine. Again I asked for the FAA compliance report, and it reported in-flight failure. After that, I flew 4 additional test flights - 2 of them were perfect (although the internal GPS unit was and is VERY slow to acquire a fix) - the other two had a GPS fault message, meaning it never acquired a position fix at all. After talking to the FAA and getting compliance reports for all six flights - some showing no problem, the others showing a GPS failure -  the FAA opined that they think it is a software or some other GPS unit failure. FreeFlight engineers had me remove the GPS unit and send it to them for evaluation, repair, replacement, or ??? - I haven't heard back yet. I'll keep the forum updated on what they find. Meanwhile, tracking down faults and determining proper configuration codes, I have learned a lot more about the system than I ever intended, and am happy to help anyone with questions. 

[Marauder]

I had the FreeFlight FDL-978-XVR with WiFi and internal GPS installed in my '68 Ranger in September. The installation seemed to go OK, although it took awhile (it was this installer's 2nd installation and the 1st one also has problems) and the installer never could figure out the post-installation configuration settings by following the installation manual. So, I called FreeFlight's tech support, and we were able to clear all 5 or 6 fault messages. In early October I flew to/from Reno and experienced no fault messages. After that flight I requested the FAA ADS-B Compliance Monitoring report - they reported no problems - their e-mail said, 'All looks good' and the report itself had no red blocks which indicate a fault. A couple of weeks later on a local flight, the internal GPS refused to acquire a position fix during a 1.5hr flight, even though my nav GPS units were fine. Again I asked for the FAA compliance report, and it reported in-flight failure. After that, I flew 4 additional test flights - 2 of them were perfect (although the internal GPS unit was and is VERY slow to acquire a fix) - the other two had a GPS fault message, meaning it never acquired a position fix at all. After talking to the FAA and getting compliance reports for all six flights - some showing no problem, the others showing a GPS failure - the FAA opined that they think it is a software or some other GPS unit failure. FreeFlight engineers had me remove the GPS unit and send it to them for evaluation, repair, replacement, or ??? - I haven't heard back yet. I'll keep the forum updated on what they find. Meanwhile, tracking down faults and determining proper configuration codes, I have learned a lot more about the system than I ever intended, and am happy to help anyone with questions.

Thanks for the update. I was looking at the FreeFlight system and held off. Keep us posted on your progress.

[amillet]

I paid a $3K deposit to Crown Avionics (KPAE) to lock in the $1500 discount that FF says is only good to 12/31. I was told 1 month for unit to arrive.

[furledd]

So far everything seems to be working fine on mine. I am using it with Avare and IFly GPS on my Android and IFly GPS on my Ipad.

 

I did find out you cant park the Tablet support yoke too close to the compass - as the tablet is magnetic and affects my compass

 

Also, I attended the Freeflight onlne monthly seminar with Pete Ring last month. These guys are really supportive and allow you to ask ANY questions. I found out a lot more about the system from that Webinair.

For example

- No batteries in it that have to ever be changed like the 430W

- The system get 978 traffic in a 15 NM puck +- 3500 ft from the ground stations, + any air to air 978 and 1090 traffic as long as its within line of site range - which explains why Chicago suburbs being 60 miles away I see lots of traffic! They  told me it could see up to 100 NM this way. You can zoom in of course to avoid showing that traffic

- Diversity Antenna on a GA aircraft really is not needed. Its a very remote chance that the wing will block view of a plane if the bottom antenna is installed properly - that saves you $800 on the install + antenna.

 

RBS4159

How did you go about asking the FAA for a compliance report? I am curious as to how mine is reporting. I may be flying 1000 NM next week cross country and would like to see how its working.

[rbs4159]

I still haven't heard back from FreeFlight about the problem(s) with my internal GPS unit, hopefully they'll have an answer before too long. If you already have ADS-B installed, you can send an email to the following address for a compliance report      9-AWA-AFS-300-ADSB-AvionicsCheck@faa.gov   Include your tail number and the equipment you have installed, they will email you back within a couple of days. I found a very useful informational brochure on the FAA website - it's the July/August 2014 FAA Safety Briefing, written by Frances Fiorino, Titled ADS-B Ins and Outs. I agree that FreeFlight has been very helpful but I still don't have a functioning unit. I'll keep everyone updated as my issues continue to develop.

 

R

[Marauder]

I still haven't heard back from FreeFlight about the problem(s) with my internal GPS unit, hopefully they'll have an answer before too long. If you already have ADS-B installed, you can send an email to the following address for a compliance report 9-AWA-AFS-300-ADSB-AvionicsCheck@faa.gov Include your tail number and the equipment you have installed, they will email you back within a couple of days. I found a very useful informational brochure on the FAA website - it's the July/August 2014 FAA Safety Briefing, written by Frances Fiorino, Titled ADS-B Ins and Outs. I agree that FreeFlight has been very helpful but I still don't have a functioning unit. I'll keep everyone updated as my issues continue to develop.

R

Thanks for the update. I decided to hold off on the FreeFlight until things settle out a bit. Please let us know the final outcome.

[furledd]

Thanks for the info on the compliance report !!!

 

I just received back an answer from my flight from Northern Alabama to Southern Florida.

 

The FAA reported to me that everything looks good in the report - reliable signal / no issues noted.

 

Everytime the Center informed me of traffic I always had that traffic on my traffic display prior to them telling me about it. Theres a lot of traffic out there you never see thats for sure, and thats just the ones "in the system"

 

Dwight

[rbs4159]

Latest update - two weeks ago, Freeflight finally send me a new GPS unit. It has a much later serial number than the one originally installed. Since it's just a slide-out, slide-in replacement, I reinstalled it. Just took a few minutes. When I fired it up, it acquired a position fix in 75 seconds. By comparison, my panel-mount non-WAAS unit took 65 seconds, and my Garmin 496 portable took only 50 seconds, although it took the 496 almost 3 minutes to acquire WAAS. I have test flown I 3 times, and operated it on the ground a half dozen times, all with perfect results, the FAA compliance report shows no problems. I have my fingers crossed that my problems are in the past. Of course, FreeFlight won't tell me what their engineers found when the tested it over a month's time so I'm not sure. If I have anything more to report, I'll post it under a new thread. FreeFlight's technical and warranty service has been exemplary and I can recommend them to you all. Since my plane was on the cutting edge, I suppose a technical glitch wasn't terribly unexpected, but it sure was a hassle. One final thought - since I now know a lot more about this system than I ever wanted, I'll be happy to offer lay-person technical assistance to anyone who needs it, as the post-installation configuration is still quite tricky. richard4159@att.net

[amillet]

I just cancelled my Freeflight installation. The following is the e-mail exchange with the avionics shop.

The original estimate was based on figures given by Free Flight Systems for

hours to install (at about 20 hours). They did not have any experience with

an actual installation.

We just finished installation of the same equipment in a wide-open Beech

Sundowner, which took 33 hours ($2,640). Now that we know what is involved,

we can educate them about the "real" number for installation time.

Your aircraft is a Mooney with more challenging wire runs and more difficult

access to wiring. We expect the job to take longer simply because the

Mooney interior is tighter and more difficult to remove/reinstall. As

always, if we take less time than my estimate, you will only be charged for

the time spent. The estimate for supplies at $200 is still good.

I hope this answers your question.

Regards,

Rachel Rustin

Crown Aviation LLC

(425) 355-4088

-----Original Message-----

From: Alan Millet [mailto:amillet69@gmail.com]

Sent: Monday, February 02, 2015 7:31 PM

To: Rachel Rustin

Subject: Re: Crown Aviation Web Site Info Request

Yor original estimate in Nov. & Dec. was $1400 to $1600, plus $200 for

supplies. Why so much different now?

Alan Millet

Sent from my iPadi-Mini

On Feb 2, 2015, at 3:47 PM, Rachel Rustin <Rachel@CrownAviation.com>wrote:

Hello Alan,

We estimate the job will require about 45 hours to complete ($80/hour)

=

$3,600

We can begin on Monday, February 9th, if you are able to deliver the

aircraft by then. It will be here for 1 week plus 2 days.

Due to the location of the remote boxes, additional time may be needed

to remove and reinstall the interior panels for access to wiring.

Let me know if this will work with your schedule.

Thank you,

Rachel Rustin

Crown Aviation LLC

(425) 355-4088

-----Original Message-----

From: amillet69@gmail.com [mailto:amillet69@gmail.com]

Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2015 6:34 PM

To: info@CrownAviation.com

Cc: chris@ed-webdesigns.com

Subject: Crown Aviation Web Site Info Request

*******From Crown Aviation Web site ********************

First name: Alan

Last name: Millet

Address:

City: Sequim

Zip: 98382

Phone: 3604613276

email: amillet69@gmail.com

Info: Do you have estimated time for install of Freeflight unit in N1084L?

<winmail.dat>

[Marauder]

I just cancelled my Freeflight installation. The following is the e-mail exchange with the avionics shop.

The original estimate was based on figures given by Free Flight Systems for

hours to install (at about 20 hours). They did not have any experience with

an actual installation.

We just finished installation of the same equipment in a wide-open Beech

Sundowner, which took 33 hours ($2,640). Now that we know what is involved,

we can educate them about the "real" number for installation time.

Your aircraft is a Mooney with more challenging wire runs and more difficult

access to wiring. We expect the job to take longer simply because the

Mooney interior is tighter and more difficult to remove/reinstall. As

always, if we take less time than my estimate, you will only be charged for

the time spent. The estimate for supplies at $200 is still good.

I hope this answers your question.

Regards,

Rachel Rustin

Crown Aviation LLC

(425) 355-4088

-----Original Message-----

From: Alan Millet [mailto:amillet69@gmail.com]

Sent: Monday, February 02, 2015 7:31 PM

To: Rachel Rustin

Subject: Re: Crown Aviation Web Site Info Request

Yor original estimate in Nov. & Dec. was $1400 to $1600, plus $200 for

supplies. Why so much different now?

Alan Millet

Sent from my iPadi-Mini

On Feb 2, 2015, at 3:47 PM, Rachel Rustin wrote:

Hello Alan,

We estimate the job will require about 45 hours to complete ($80/hour)

=

$3,600

We can begin on Monday, February 9th, if you are able to deliver the

aircraft by then. It will be here for 1 week plus 2 days.

Due to the location of the remote boxes, additional time may be needed

to remove and reinstall the interior panels for access to wiring.

Let me know if this will work with your schedule.

Thank you,

Rachel Rustin

Crown Aviation LLC

(425) 355-4088

-----Original Message-----

From: amillet69@gmail.com [mailto:amillet69@gmail.com]

Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2015 6:34 PM

To: info@CrownAviation.com

Cc: chris@ed-webdesigns.com

Subject: Crown Aviation Web Site Info Request

*******From Crown Aviation Web site ********************

First name: Alan

Last name: Millet

Address:

City: Sequim

Zip: 98382

Phone: 3604613276

email: amillet69@gmail.com

Info: Do you have estimated time for install of Freeflight unit in N1084L?

Man that stinks. That is almost $8k for the solution. Nuts! I also heard that Aspen will charge for the unlock code for the FreeFlight to work on their stuff. If you buy the Aspen version (I believe not released yet) it will include the unlock code.

[Cruiser]

I have no idea what is being installed or how it is being interfaced, but 45 hours is more than most MSCs put into a complete annual. 

 

I would be looking for a different avionics shop.

[carusoam]

You can buy Multiple IPads and sky radars for that...?

Best regards,

-a-

[drapo]

That's exactly why we need to support AOPA and others who are fighting for a "softer" solution for the required equipment for the 2020 ADS-B mandate. Installation quotes are obscene, why not focus on a solution that is semi-portable and can be certified on a bi-annual basis like my transponder, encoder and altimeter?

BTW! If you're asking yourself why a Canadian is taking part in this debate? I live 40nm from the borders and, like many of my Canadian friends, do a lot of flying in the USA and I am a member of COPA and AOPA, so yes it affects me!

[ArtVandelay]

Man that stinks. That is almost $8k for the solution. Nuts! I also heard that Aspen will charge for the unlock code for the FreeFlight to work on their stuff. If you buy the Aspen version (I believe not released yet) it will include the unlock code.

That's about what it cost ($7200) for my GDL88 & FS210 installation

[Marauder]

That's about what it cost ($7200) for my GDL88 & FS210 installation

With those prices, I have a strong suspicion that there will be a lot of ES transponders and portable ADS-B devices sold.

[TWinter]

My GDL88 and FS210 was $8164.  They did have to change my encoder and that was about $250 included in the $8164. Just got the final bill today.