Small screws that hold windlace down

[PTK]

I'm starting a little project to replace the windlace.

The baggage compartment opening has some small screws around its perimeter that hold the windlace down. Some of these screws are phillips and some are what appear to be round with a round hole in the head. They're certainly not phillips and they don't appear to be hex either.

Does anyone know what type of screws they are?

Edited October 24, 2014 by PTK

[KSMooniac]

They might be pop rivets...removed with a drill.  

[PTK]

They don't appear to be rivets Scott.

Look like regular screws only not phillips or hex! The recess looks round.

[KSMooniac]

Can you see threads, or just the head?  Perhaps they used to phillips and someone stripped them out?  If they are stripped screws, get a pair of these:

 

http://www.amazon.com/VamPLIERS-Extraction-Stripped-Corroded-Security/dp/B006YJKAPQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1414186415&sr=8-1&keywords=vampliers

 

They are AMAZING for getting screws out.

[PTK]

Thanks Scott.

I'll examine them more closely tomorrow. I'll try to take a picture

[helitim]

I just replaced mine last week while doing all the glass panels. Used #4 screw w/Phillips head and an upholstery washer. Worked very nicely and looks good.

[PTK]

Ok as I said some of these are screws are some are not. I don't know what rhey are but not phillips screws.

Now my question is this: do these screws or whatever hold anything except the windlace? The phillips ones seem to only hold the windlace down. They don't thread into anything else. Because if so I'll drill those other ones and replace them with screws.

Anyone know? Helitim?

[PTK]

Here are pics.

The first two pics show clearly phillips screws.

Anyone know what the ones in the third pic are?

[Bob_Belville]

Look like stripped Phillips to me. 

http://www.amazon.com/IIT-90050-Screw-Extractor-5-Piece/dp/B001TLIJU2/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1427160391&sr=8-9&keywords=stripped+screw+extractor

 

Or Lowes, Walmart, Harbor Freight....

[PTK]

Bob, they seem perfectly round. If they were stripped phillips they'd have some sort of imperfection on them I would think, no?

[DonMuncy]

Are you sure they are not pop rivet heads. I can't tell from the pictures.

[PTK]

I don't know Don. What do pop rivet heads looke like?! I don't think so because there is a round recess. A pop rivet would not leave a recess after the pin breaks off would it?

Also I can't imagine they'd rivet in windlace.

[Bob_Belville]

Blind rivets?

 

Should be no problem drilling one out. Mine are all Phillips, you can go back with screws. What ever looks good.

 

https://www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&biw=1025&bih=504&tbm=isch&q=blind+rivet+nut&revid=823532300&sa=X&ei=28kQVanACa-OsQTt9YLQBA&ved=0CCIQ1QIoAQ#imgdii=_&imgrc=LCQWmK-eaQ_9LM%253A%3BUVkp0gJ9pDzfyM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fimg.diytrade.com%252Fcdimg%252F1037461%252F11306302%252F0%252F1259824900%252FBLIND_RIVET_NUT.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fblind.china-direct-buy.com%252Fv%252F4%252Fproduct_detail%252F6218673%252FBLIND_RIVET_NUT.html%3B1024%3B1024

[DonMuncy]

On cheap aluminum pop rivets, often the center post will break below the surface and can look a lot like the pics. And the nice part is they are easy to drill out. If I were putting on windlace and a couple of the screw holes were stripped out, I might be tempted to drill out the holes to 1/8 inch and put in pop rivets.

[Randy_B]

I agree with Bob.  They appear to be blind rivets.  Cherry Rivets can be domed or recessed and if sized properly the anvil will break-off at the head surface. You will be able to drill them out.

[Bob_Belville]

I redid the interior of my almost-fifty-year-old plane. If a few cases I had to go up a size on the trim screws where holes were wallowed out. 

[PTK]

In drilling them is the goal to remove the entire rivet or just the head?

 

Will the head just come out and the rest fall in behind the surface?

 

How do you decide the size drill bit to use?

 

I want to preserve to diameter of the hole and not make it bigger so I can put in phillips screws like in the first two pics.

[Shadrach]

Check the size of the holes that had screws and start there.

[Andy95W]

They are probably 1/8" pop rivets. The goal is to drill down, very gently, until just the head comes off. The body of the rivet will fall out and drop inside the structure where you can (hopefully)'vacuum it out later.

Maybe start with a 3/32" drill bit. If that doesn't take the head off, move up to the 1/8. Try to start with one that is relatively unnoticeable. When you get the first one done, you'll be surprised at how easy it is. Slow and gentle is the key.

[DonMuncy]

Use a number drill #31. It is .005 in under a 1/8 in drill.

[helitim]

Peter,

Your photos do appear to be, as previously suggested, pop rivets that the center fell out of. Most of the rivets I have encountered can be removed with a #30 drill bit. You want to have a bit that just barely cuts the center of the material out so you do not get into the under lying metal and enlarge the hole. Once you drill the center, if the rivet doesn't fall right out, just take a small screwdriver or chisel and lightly tap it from the side to pop the head off the rivet body. It should come off fairly easily if the center is drilled evenly.

Tim

[helitim]

I see Don beat me to the punch. He is correct in starting with a #31 and going to a 30 if needed. I generally start with a 30 and am very careful to center the bit.

Tim

[jetdriven]

A #30 drill bit is the correct size to use for a #4 (1/8" nominal) rivet. Aircraft rivets have pretty precise hole tolerance, pop rivets are more tolerant of oversize or sloppy holes. 

 

heres a video that shows how.  pop rivets are very soft, so use very light pressure and high speed on a cordless drill, and only drill enough to release the head.  Cherry-max rivets are a whole different animal and are an absolute terror to replace.

 

http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1472379714

 

I prefer screws in the windlace and the lower door sill. Its easier to remove them later for maintenance or access.  You can epoxy a piece of .020-.032 aluminum to the backside of the hole and redrill a small pilot hole for a screw, if you have access to it.

[N231BN]

Do not drill any pop rivets! The windlace is held only by screws. In the front of the baggage door where you see the pop rivets you need to get under the headliner to remove the screws. It is actually quite a big job and you need to remove the plastic panels surrounding the hat rack to access everything.