Engine monitor installation

[Tommy]

Hi everyone!

 

I am contemplating in installing an engine monitor for LOP operation on my 20J and am wondering

 

1) how many hours does it take to install a complete system with 4 CHT and maybe 2 EGT probes?

2) how much extra for fuel flow monitor and is it worth it?

3) what would be the cheapest system available?

4) if I buy a new engine instead of overhauling, do I need to replace the probes etc?

 

Thanks!

 

Tommy

 

[rbridges]

I don't know details on cost or installation, but I would highly recommend the fuel flow monitor if it's within your budget.  Mine is pretty darn accurate, and it's great peace of mind when you go on longer trips/

[1964-M20E]

Digital fuel flow and totalizer is a great thing to have. Helps a lot to get you where you want to be LOP. The other thing I saw you mention 2 EGTs once you get there all 4 EGTs are a snap and very useful in deterring where you have a problem.

 

1. How much space do you have?
2. Do you have an electronic fuel flow meter?
3. Do you want to replace all engine gauges or just get CTH and EGT functions?

 

 I’ve been looking at the Insight G1 just for EGT and CHT functions the G2 gives you fuel flow, OAT, Volts and data logging in a standard 2 ¼” package.  The G1 or G2 seem to be pretty cost effective for what you get.

 

 

You can reuse the probes on an overhauled engine.

[Marauder]

Hi everyone!

I am contemplating in installing an engine monitor for LOP operation on my 20J and am wondering

1) how many hours does it take to install a complete system with 4 CHT and maybe 2 EGT probes?

Depends on the options you have installed. Modern analyzers come standard with 4 CHT and 4 EGT then the options begin. On my JPI 830 I have OAT, oil temp, oil pressure, fuel flow, MP, RPM and buss voltage.

2) how much extra for fuel flow monitor and is it worth it?

I think it comes standard with the JPI 830, but is an option on others:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/830jpi.php?clickkey=43828

3) what would be the cheapest system available?

They are all competively priced, although the EI CGR-30P can replace primary instruments and is priced in the JPI 830 range.

4) if I buy a new engine instead of overhauling, do I need to replace the probes etc?

Not if they are in good shape. JPI monitors the health of them and will report a probe failure.

Thanks!

Tommy

[ArtVandelay]

Hi everyone!

 

I am contemplating in installing an engine monitor for LOP operation on my 20J and am wondering

 

1) how many hours does it take to install a complete system with 4 CHT and maybe 2 EGT probes?

2) how much extra for fuel flow monitor and is it worth it?

3) what would be the cheapest system available?

4) if I buy a new engine instead of overhauling, do I need to replace the probes etc?

 

Thanks!

 

Tommy

1. I would expect it to take ~40 hrs, I upgraded mine 700->830 (added FF, extra sensors) and it was 3.5 days of labor, the cost of the unit was less than the labor.

2. Yes, with JPIs it's optional, you can always add it later, ask shop to price it separately.

3. No idea, but see #1

4. Replace the probes, no, but they will have to reinstall them, EMs are so common these days, that may be included

[N601RX]

I installed an JPI 830 in my plane a couple of years ago.  The plane was already opened up for some other work.  I didn't keep up with the exact hrs, but it was done over a weekend.  Most of the time was figuring out the best way to route the FF transducer and fishing the wiring out to the wing for the OAT.

 

Earlier this year I removed it and put in the JPI 900.  I was able to leave most of the main harnesses in place, but had to replace a few of the sensors that were different and add one new harness. The most time consuming part of this was fishing new wires out to the outboard fuel senders and then calibrating the tanks. I worked on it every afternoon after work for about a week, so probably 18 hrs to remove parts of the 830 and install the 900.

 

These engine monitors are not difficult to install, they come with complete harnesses already made. You have to crimp a few ring connectors onto the sensor end of the harnesses.  It can be done by a local A&P much cheaper than at an avionics shop.

[KSMooniac]

I think 25-40 hours of installation labor is the typical range, depending on how many options are installed.  The basic EDM-700 or similar will have 4 CHT and 4 EGT probes.  You can add fuel flow, OAT, oil temp, oil pressure, etc. if you wish.

 

I have an EDM-700 with fuel flow and no other add-ons that I've removed for upgrade to an EDM-900.  I'll be selling it soon with the fuel flow transducer and hoses out of my J. I'll also including a spare/used OAT probe that came out of my salvage J.  It includes the data download port and JPI serial cable.  PM me if you have any interest in the system.  It has worked great for me, and I'm only upgrading to get rid of my original engine instruments.

[m20flyer]

I just put an EDM700 with FF into a Bonanza.  Expect 10-12hrs of labor on an EDM700, fewer if the mechanic has done a few of them.  It's not too bad.

 

If you get the FF feature your IA will need to fab two fuel line segments to accommodate the FF transducer.  This isn't a big deal, just know that you'll need to find a home for the transducer that gives enough space upstream and downstream of the transducer (mine is on top of the engine).

 

Your questions:

1 - 10-12hrs

2 - GET THE FF!  The EDM700 FF feature comes with a totalizer (I think any FF feature will include a totalizer)

3 - I got a used EDM700 with six EGT+CHT probes with the fuel transducer for < $2000.  It works very well.

3a - Get four EGTs and four CHTs.

4 - You can remove and reuse the probes.

[larryb]

My EDM 700 cht/egt only was 10 hours labor. I already had an FS450 installed so did not need fuel flow on that instrument. You absolutely want fuel flow and totalizer.

[gsxrpilot]

I went through this very same exercise this last spring.  After quite a bit of research I went with the Insight G2.  Both the JPI and EI instruments at the same price point are still using 1970's technology displays.  The G1 and G2 have modern full color graphics.  They are much easier to read and show all data on all cylinders simultaneously.  I went with the G2 for the fuel flow option.  And it has become invaluable.  It's so nice to know how much fuel has been used, and how much is still available.  It also helps with leaning.  My local A&P took 30 hours to do the install.  But he'd never done an Insight before.

 

The G2 is certified as primary for CHT and EGT allowing you to remove the factory gauges.

[Houman]

I went through this very same exercise this last spring.  After quite a bit of research I went with the Insight G2.  Both the JPI and EI instruments at the same price point are still using 1970's technology displays.  The G1 and G2 have modern full color graphics.  They are much easier to read and show all data on all cylinders simultaneously.  I went with the G2 for the fuel flow option.  And it has become invaluable.  It's so nice to know how much fuel has been used, and how much is still available.  It also helps with leaning.  My local A&P took 30 hours to do the install.  But he'd never done an Insight before.

 

The G2 is certified as primary for CHT and EGT allowing you to remove the factory gauges.

wow, I would love to see a picture of the the whole panel. I got an JPI 700 EDM and looking to replace it in the next couple of years with something more modern...

[gsxrpilot]

I'll take a picture next time I'm out at the hanger.  The pictures I have now are all from before the GEM install.

[Tommy]

Thanks guys!!

 

So where is the best / cheapest place to get a JDI system?

 

What about MGL? Is it any good? They are awful cheap!

 

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/in/mgl_ems.html

[Amelia]

I have had an EDM 730 for several years. I really like its clear display and ease of use. When it started talking trash to me a month or so ago, I pulled it out and sent it back, whining that it was giving erratic and nonsensical readings. The lovely tech support person called me a couple of days later, saying, "You aren't crazy. It needed some work. And new software. No charge, it's covered, and you'll have it back day after tomorrow." Can't beat that service!

 

Now it is back in, and all I have to do is figure out how to reprogram it so it thinks I'm burning less than 48gph on takeoff, and 27 in cruise. I don't think I have all the numbers to plug in to do that, but we shall soon see.

[ArtVandelay]

 

Now it is back in, and all I have to do is figure out how to reprogram it so it thinks I'm burning less than 48gph on takeoff, and 27 in cruise. I don't think I have all the numbers to plug in to do that, but we shall soon see.

There should be a K-factor on the fuel transducer, just enter that into system configuration

[Tommy]

So is MGL engine monitor any good at all?

 

[Tom]

So is MGL engine monitor any good at all?

 

MGL isn't a certified unit and cannot be used in a certified airplane.  That said, in the homebuilt community MGL doesn't have a bad reputation though it doesn't seem to be as popular on high-end homebuilts.

[Amelia]

This getting the monitor reinstalled and working is turning out to be a pain. Is a K factor unique to the airplane or is everybody's M231 K factor the same? Does anybody know what his number is off hand? I think I have to uncowl the thing to find out what is written on the transducer, right? And about the monitor's problem with the battery... I suspect the monitor just assumes it's a 24 volt airplane, when in fact it's a mere 12V. And when I get that far in the reprogramming, all will become clear. But at the moment, it flashes excitedly that the battery's no good. It's fine, almost new, and starts the engine without complaint.I wonder what else I'm going to have to stand on my head to find out. Maybe I should cheat and write the answers in the freakin' manual as I figure them out, you think?

[Tommy]

So it means you can't use MGL on a Mooney?

 

 

What happen if you do?

 

[carusoam]

Amelia,

The sensitivity of the device is so high, to get the accuracy that you want, each installation gets it's own K factor.

The installation documentation should get you close using an tibial setting. Every fill up is an opportunity to improve your accuracy (for a while)...

Tommy,

There are benefits to certified aircraft. They are dependable, predictable and follow certain rules to maintain this dependability and predictability...

And there are some disappointing things... We can't legally install things that aren't certified (/ proven) into systems that are.

The good news...

There are many different ways to include things that help keep our planes aloft. You would need to be aware of what they are called. Things like STCs and owner produced parts...

Realistically, there are too many details in a complex aircraft parts that will not work properly until proven to work properly.

The failure of a simple device like a fuel flow sensor or even a fuel drain can lead to fuel leakage or air entering the system followed by a power outage and an off airport landing...

Any questions, ask your mechanic...

As far as what happens when an insurance company finds that a pilot has not followed the FARs...check your insurance policy for their expectations.

Makes sense?

Best regards,

-a-

[flyboy0681]

I don't know details on cost or installation, but I would highly recommend the fuel flow monitor if it's within your budget.  Mine is pretty darn accurate, and it's great peace of mind when you go on longer trips/

 

I've said here before that when I fill up I look at the EDM 700 to see how many gallons were used and tell the guying filling the tanks that it should take x.x gallons. More times than not I'm within ounces. What's even more interesting is I use Weathermeister.com to do trip planning and it's fuel calculations are usually within a gallon if I don't experence any delays along the route.

 

And since the EDM is wired into the GPS, I have a complete picture of fuel for the entire journey, including gallons needed to complete the flight as well as fuel remaining once I land.