Jakl Posted September 11, 2014 Report Posted September 11, 2014 My wife and I are going to check out our first Mooney this weekend. We obviously will not buy anything without a thorough pre buy from an experienced mooney mechanic. But before getting to that step, what are some things potential buyers can look for themselves to weed out the less desirable planes? Obviously looking at the overall ccondition of the skin and rivets, and checking the condition of the donuts on the gear, but beyond that I'm still trying to find specifics to the 20J that can stand out (or not) as potential problems. Quote
Hank Posted September 11, 2014 Report Posted September 11, 2014 George Perry just reposted his thread about what to look for. I won't search for it now on my phone. Quote
Jakl Posted September 11, 2014 Author Report Posted September 11, 2014 Ha yeah I'm on my phone as well and having trouble with the search function. I'll see if I can find it once I get home. Quote
mooniac15u Posted September 11, 2014 Report Posted September 11, 2014 If you are having trouble searching on mooneyspace try putting your search terms into Google and add the word mooneyspace at the end. Quote
carusoam Posted September 11, 2014 Report Posted September 11, 2014 I followed the given advice, and found Mr. Perry's recent post... Here is where it pointed to... http://mooneyspace.com/topic/8-prospective-vintage-mooney-buyers/?hl=%2Bperspective+%2Bvintage+%2Bmooney Hope that helps... Best regards, -a- Quote
chrisk Posted September 11, 2014 Report Posted September 11, 2014 Also, there is not much difference between a vintage Mooney and a J when looking for things on a pre-purchase. One difference is the J will not have the prop AD. The nose truss and leaky fuel tanks are probably the biggest Mooney specific item to look for. Maybe there is something J specific, but since I don't have a J, I'm not sure. I seem to recall topics on hot starts, the muffler, and cowling droop, but none were serious issues. Quote
teethdoc Posted September 11, 2014 Report Posted September 11, 2014 Look under the wings for blue fuel stains. Smell for gas when you open the cockpit. Quote
Bob - S50 Posted September 11, 2014 Report Posted September 11, 2014 Useful load. It can vary from under 900 to just over 1000. Bob Quote
urbanti Posted September 11, 2014 Report Posted September 11, 2014 You might read the aviation consumers guide review of the J, as well perhaps as the LASAR Mooney buyers guide, and the MAPA evaluation of the J. good luck Tim Quote
Jakl Posted September 12, 2014 Author Report Posted September 12, 2014 Checked out all the links here and all were a great help. Thanks! Quote
OR75 Posted September 12, 2014 Report Posted September 12, 2014 Best thing you can do is have someone you know that has been involved into maintenance or has done an owners assist annual. Buying an aircraft is an exciting time , so you would not have to twist anyone arm to come along Quote
N9405V Posted September 14, 2014 Report Posted September 14, 2014 Another piece of advice is try and determine how involved the seller has been in the maintenance process. If they can't tell you basic information about the plane, then walk away. Quote
teethdoc Posted September 14, 2014 Report Posted September 14, 2014 On 9/14/2014 at 2:22 PM, N2124V said: Another piece of advice is try and determine how involved the seller has been in the maintenance process. If they can't tell you basic information about the plane, then walk away. I'm not sure I agree with this. Quote
N9405V Posted September 14, 2014 Report Posted September 14, 2014 On 9/14/2014 at 5:25 PM, teethdoc said: I'm not sure I agree with this. Sorry, I would think an owner that was paying attention would be able to answer basic questions like when was the oil changed. If they can't answer that, what else has not been taken care of? Quote
N601RX Posted September 14, 2014 Report Posted September 14, 2014 In addition to what has already been mentioned during the initial look over take a flashlight and look into the main wheel wells very closely. If their is any flakey or bulging aluminum don't bother to look any further. Quote
urbanti Posted September 15, 2014 Report Posted September 15, 2014 I have purchased an airplane from a pilot who was not very involved in the maintenance decisions and would not necessarily run away from a plane based on that alone. Some (well-off) guys sign up with a premium factory-authorized shop and just tell the shop foreman to do whatever needs to be done. If you talk to the owner's shop doing the maintenance and they sound top-notch, and if the logs looks credible and up to date on ADs and such, it might not be a deal-breaker if the owner is hands-off. best Tim 1 Quote
urbanti Posted September 15, 2014 Report Posted September 15, 2014 Also, if you're looking at a J, keep an eye open for smoking rivets. Not sure why, but many of the the J's I looked at had lots of smoking rivets. If you see lots of them, would get an estimate from a good shop on how much work to re-strike or replace or whatever. Tim Quote
aaronk25 Posted September 16, 2014 Report Posted September 16, 2014 Add muffler inspection to your list. I had a cracked muffler and loose heat shroud. About 1k to fix, so like most aviation things I replaced it with a 3.8k power flow. Always something Quote
Awqward Posted September 21, 2014 Report Posted September 21, 2014 This is a useful article: http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/M20J_Inspection.htm Also: http://www.lasar.com/sales/buyers-guide.asp And: http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/M20J%20Evaluation/M20J_evaluation_report.html Bookmarked from when I was looking... Quote
Av8 Posted September 24, 2014 Report Posted September 24, 2014 About 90 days into owning a J I will share some of what went well, and what I might do differently re-winding the clock. To the good: Spent time focusing on what was right for the "mission" - at the start was looking at Bonanza A-36. After flying A36, F33 an Ovation and a J model concluded that the J was the right plane for me. I fly solo or with 1 passenger most of the time, longest flight is just over 600 NM and wanted to be able to get there non-stop. Sold a 172 a few years ago, and was not interested in a 182. Nothing against Cessna. Focused in: Given some good advice buy a newer firewall forward, solid autopilot. a straight, NDH, well cared for (hangars!) airframe will last longer than we will. Paint, interior are easy upgrades to preference. Avionics - I was hoping for "older is better" to do upgrade. This runs against conventional wisdom but most of these planes have KLN or 430/530 or older king equipment. Having been through repeated issues in my sky hawk I was willing to budget a significant panel upgrade to modern technology vs. 30+ year old wires, etc. and chasing intermittent issues. An airplane is not an investment - it's a toy and/or transportation - don't listen to any talk about investment value... All of that said found a '78 J, factory new engine and Hartzell top prop less than 3 years old. Original paint, 10 year old interior both in good shape. several owners but NDH and logs looked thorough and credible. Difficult thing - plane was several states away and wrestled with going on-site to do pre-buy - chose to have the pre-buy done remote and ferry plane in. Because of his reputation, and the fact that he was "in between" the plane and me - I chose to have the pre-buy done by Don Mawell. Don Maxwell did a fantastic job with the pre-buy/annual inspection. His e-mails/phone calls gave great confidence in the mechanical condition of the plane. There were many things that "owners get used to" that Don pointed out and we talked through with regards to repair or not. This ranged from stiffness/lack of lubrication to dents/dings in the airframe, condition of shock disks, tires etc. Having had the plane for 90 days, purchase + pre buy + annual + a few purchases & repairs I have to say overall I'm pleased with the transaction. I'll share a few things I "missed' or would do differently. 1 - buying "sight unseen" - I'd go this route again, but I did miss a few things. No Shoulder Harnesses - complete boof on my part that this was still an option in '78 Avionics - any rebuildable/core-replacement items - get the serial # and last date of O/H (see more below) condition of interior, paint etc. - pictures do ok, but there were a few "I thought it looked different in the picture" moments 2 - Actual experience may vary... So the "long time since resealed" fuel tanks are looking better than feared, but I have had an attitude indicator failure - timing is everything, no comments from ferry pilot on performance and I flew about 10 hours with no issues with it. My comment above however would have led me to negotiate stronger - the serial number on the KI 256 was in the 2,000's and it was 10+ years since last O/H. Call any shop, none will swap the core on a serial number that low. Because I was looking at older avionics, I didn't dig in to this as much as I should have - though I had hoped to get a year away from the purchase before plunking down serious $$ for a panel upgrade, I'm reviewing quotes on which way to go, replace the A/I, go Aspen or full boat Garmin upgrade... The plane fly's remarkably like the J model I flew in my evaluation and the numbers it achieves very much like those in the mooney pilots evaluation of the M20J. http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/M20J%20Evaluation/M20J_evaluation_report.html Overall the plane is just what I was after, functional, meets my needs @ a reasonable entry point that I can love and shower disposable income on for years to come... The transition from Archer/Skyhawk to the Mooney has been very easy. Within 5-10 hours I was very comfortable both in the pattern and flying IFR xc. The mooney pilot evaluation report and write-ups on mooneys in the links above are very true to what I have experienced. Best of luck to all considering purchasing a Mooney. Thanks to those who have posted their experiences from whom I have learned, and hopefully I can contribute a tiny bit to the pilot/owner knowledge on this board in the future. Quote
carusoam Posted September 24, 2014 Report Posted September 24, 2014 Av8, Nice report... Are you an engineer? Best regards, -a- Quote
gsxrpilot Posted September 24, 2014 Report Posted September 24, 2014 I was looking for a C or an E but here was my wish list in relatively final order of importance from top to bottom. No frame corrosion Engine < 1000 SMOH Regularly flown Standard 6-pack panel IFR Certified Autopilot Dual Nav/Comms HSI WAAS GPS Airframe < 4000 TAT no AD on prop 1 piece windshield Tank bladders or sealed tanks Engine monitor Exterior paint Interior condition 2 blade prop No Damage history I got everything except the last line. But after Don Maxwell gave it a clean bill of health I was happy. Quote
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