BMI

[scottfromiowa]

IF sleep apnea is a real risk. (Where are the statistics of any flight having an actual impact on safe flight)

And IF high BMI people have a significant risk of sleep apnea.(Statistics? Pick a percentage. 20%, 5%)

and IF sleep apnea doesn't occur in significant numbers in low BMI people. (Statistics? Pick a percentage)

Then the FAA might convince me their proposal has some merit for passenger carrying pilots.

Double those percentages and I get a little closer to buying off of checking all of us.

Crickets on those stats....Full Steam ahead!

[kmyfm20s]

IF sleep apnea is a real risk. (Where are the statistics of any flight having an actual impact on safe flight)

And IF high BMI people have a significant risk of sleep apnea.(Statistics? Pick a percentage. 20%, 5%)

and IF sleep apnea doesn't occur in significant numbers in low BMI people. (Statistics? Pick a percentage)

Then the FAA might convince me their proposal has some merit for passenger carrying pilots.

Double those percentages and I get a little closer to buying off of checking all of us.

Like I said I didn't bring up sleep apnea but here you go!

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/facts-research/briefs/SleepApneaCrash-RiskStudy-TechBrief.htm

How you can apply this to aviation I don't know. I think flying in to a mountain would be hard to figure out if someone was asleep or just stupid.

[carusoam]

Our local hospital has a place for overnight sleep studies....

http://www.smcsleepforlife.com/sfl/sleepforlife.aspx

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

Our local hospital has a place for overnight sleep studies....

http://www.smcsleepforlife.com/sfl/sleepforlife.aspx

Best regards,

-a-

After this discussion Anthony, I may just go there to catch up on some sleep.

Sent using Tapatalk

[scottfromiowa]

BMI & Neck Size are the criteria that will be solely used to determine if "additional assessments" are required to see if the individual has sleep apnea. BMI=Sleep Apnea assessment they ARE intertwined....BMI is the vehicle to require sleep apnea testing with ZERO actual data for general aviation pilots ((even flying into mountains under unusual circumstances).

First they come for the fat...what "class" is next? STOP THE INSANITY.

[fluffysheap]

ECG for a second class medical? I have had a second class for a number of years and never had an ECG.

 

Sorry, you are right.  I looked at the FAA summary:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/standards/

 

And the layout of the chart indicates that you might need an ECG for second class.  However, I looked at FAR 67.211 and you are right, ECG is only for first class.  Second class just requires no diagnosed heart disease.

[Cruiser]

Like I said I didn't bring up sleep apnea but here you go!

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/facts-research/briefs/SleepApneaCrash-RiskStudy-TechBrief.htm

How you can apply this to aviation I don't know. I think flying in to a mountain would be hard to figure out if someone was asleep or just stupid.

well your referenced report states that there is absolutely no statistical evidence that sleep apnea is linked to accidents. So what does the study conclude you ask??

And I quote: "With these additions, a more reliable database can be created and a stronger case can be made from the results of a future study." A stronger case? I guess statistical evidence doesn't matter if it doesn't support your desired results.

Oh, and to be absolutely fair I should state that the study did conclude that there was strong correlation between severe accidents and severe sleep apnea.

What? I guess you would conclude that people with severe sleep apnea don't have "minor" accidents, they only have major ones.

[kmyfm20s]

Sounds like you have nothing to worry about and we are safe then!

[carusoam]

Chris,

A friend had to go there. Has a cpap? device now. He gets the whole night of rest.

He was unable before. I have no idea how many people are affected this way. Without sleep, life becomes challenging.

So if there is a real solution to a real health problem, I'm all for it.

Does the government need to help the part 91 pilot with this? Probably not.

All I need is to gain a few inches in height...I prefer a set of longer legs...

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

Chris,

A friend had to go there. Has a cpap? device now. He gets the whole night of rest.

He was unable before. I have no idea how many people are affected this way. Without sleep, life becomes challenging.

So if there is a real solution to a real health problem, I'm all for it.

Does the government need to help the part 91 pilot with this? Probably not.

All I need is to gain a few inches in height...I prefer a set of longer legs...

Best regards,

-a-

I track my sleep with a FitBit. Not as scientific, but does a pretty good job of letting me know when I am tossing around in bed.

Sent using Tapatalk

[drapo]

That doctor was full of crap.  At 5'9" and 210' your BMI would be 31, which (if it was all fat rather than muscle) would put you in the obese category - barely - but not morbidly obese, which needs a BMI of 40 (270 lbs at 5'9") or weight-related health problems.

 

And is weight even one of the criteria that an AME can use to deny a medical?  Based on the fact that there is so much hoopla over the sleep apnea test, I believe the answer is probably no.  It isn't in the standards.

 

Never having had medical concerns, is there some procedure you can use to appeal gross incompetence by an AME, like imagining you weigh 60 pounds more than you do and that it's a disqualifying condition.  Not talking about getting a waiver for a condition you actually have, but an appeal because the AME was wrong.

 

All that said, an ECG is required for first and second class medical after age 35, so that, by itself, isn't out of the ordinary unless you were only going for a third-class.

That doctor wasńt an AME, She was treating me for a knee injury. Since it had been a while since I had a thourough exam, I asked her for the full exam and got it. During the interview, I disclosed that my dad died of a heart attack, and that cost me some points in her scale, even if he was 82. Her exact words were that I was a "ticking bomb", a heart attack waiting to happen and that she had to share that info with Transport Canada, the regulator, if I didn't go for an effort ECG and passed. At my age and with the type of licence I hold as an ATC, I need to pass a standard ECG, lying down, every year.

[Mooneymite]

Sleep apnea isn't specifically a pilot issue at all, but we are all affected by other pilots in the common airspace.

 

Here's an interesting first person account:  

 

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/aviation-international-news/2014-01-01/tilton-right-he-could-use-good-pr-agent

 

 

This excerpt may explain why there aren't better statistics supporting grounding pilots with SA:

 

In the shower each morning, as I leaned against the tiles wondering why I was so utterly drained after a night in bed, all I wanted to do was curl up on the floor of the enclosure and sleep. I would pull off the road en route to work or returning home to doze for a few minutes and try to fend off the overwhelming urge to sleep. During brief forays into something resembling sleep at night, I would dream I was unable to breathe but told myself it was only a dream, when in fact I was indeed suffocating from lack of oxygen. A core reflex would yank me out of it and restart breathing until the next stoppage. This went on all night, every night, and I was unaware of it.

 

BMI may be a poor indicator, but it may be the only indicator in many cases.

 

 

[carusoam]

This is a response to Drapo's input...

Genetics provide a fair warning of what to watch for.

Fortunately, today there are medications and diets that allow us to make adjustments.

It is better to know and be able to make adjustments than plod along and pray nothing happens.

On the other hand... Cell phones and 9-1-1 work pretty well if you're fortunate to meet someone with a cell phone before flopping over...(not recommended)

Drapo, did you get a statin or other medication? Make any diet changes?

Best regards,

-a-

[drapo]

All my other values are OK, I don't drink and eat well, thanks for caring!

[chrisk]

Sleep apnea isn't specifically a pilot issue at all, but we are all affected by other pilots in the common airspace.

 

Here's an interesting first person account:  

 

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/aviation-international-news/2014-01-01/tilton-right-he-could-use-good-pr-agent

 

 

This excerpt may explain why there aren't better statistics supporting grounding pilots with SA:

 

In the shower each morning, as I leaned against the tiles wondering why I was so utterly drained after a night in bed, all I wanted to do was curl up on the floor of the enclosure and sleep. I would pull off the road en route to work or returning home to doze for a few minutes and try to fend off the overwhelming urge to sleep. During brief forays into something resembling sleep at night, I would dream I was unable to breathe but told myself it was only a dream, when in fact I was indeed suffocating from lack of oxygen. A core reflex would yank me out of it and restart breathing until the next stoppage. This went on all night, every night, and I was unaware of it.

 

BMI may be a poor indicator, but it may be the only indicator in many cases.

 

The fundamental issue is safety of flight.   Is sleep apnea worse than flying with a cold? Or staying in a noisy hotel room with poor heating / AC?  Each pilot has to judge for them self.  --and if we all waited for the perfect day, we would never fly.  What is next:  Your getting a divorce, so you fail a medical because you might be distracted? 

[scottfromiowa]

Sleep apnea isn't specifically a pilot issue at all, but we are all affected by other pilots in the common airspace.

Here's an interesting first person account:

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/aviation-international-news/2014-01-01/tilton-right-he-could-use-good-pr-agent

This excerpt may explain why there aren't better statistics supporting grounding pilots with SA:

In the shower each morning, as I leaned against the tiles wondering why I was so utterly drained after a night in bed, all I wanted to do was curl up on the floor of the enclosure and sleep. I would pull off the road en route to work or returning home to doze for a few minutes and try to fend off the overwhelming urge to sleep. During brief forays into something resembling sleep at night, I would dream I was unable to breathe but told myself it was only a dream, when in fact I was indeed suffocating from lack of oxygen. A core reflex would yank me out of it and restart breathing until the next stoppage. This went on all night, every night, and I was unaware of it.

BMI may be a poor indicator, but it may be the only indicator in many cases.

How about having to pull off to the side of the road to rest? How about feeling "utterly drained after a night in bed"? Would these be indicators that the individual needs to be evaluated? That was rhetorical. The nanny state is alive and well.

[kmyfm20s]

This is the simplistic description of the problem of sleep apnea. I'm a slow typer so not going to be long and flowery.

The problem with sleep apnea is the chronic lack of deep sleep. Deep sleep is essential for a healthy individual because it is when the anabolic processes occur in the body to regenerate the hormones, nuero transmitters, muscle regeneration, ect. Why they don't get into the deep sleep cycle is because the base of the tongue collapses against the back of the throat blocking the air. Between the blockage and drop in oxygen levels as a result your body response with a burst of adrenaline(fight or flight) to gasp for air. The low oxygen causes your heart to work harder to pump the blood faster so it can get back to the lungs for more oxygen. The constant release of adrenaline stresses the cardiovascular system as well. So you get a high resting pulse, high blood pressure, low hormone( low T and others), depletion of nuero transmitters( motor and Brian function), Brain fog from the previous mentioned combination and low oxygen. Sleep apnea patients might sleep a lot but they have a low amount of deep sleep and it is very different than someone without it having a bad night sleep. A common misconception is that you have to snore to have sleep apnea, you don't. If people want to learn more from individuals and their stories they have a forum http://www.apneaboard.com (Scott I get no monetary benefit from them)

How am I involved in it? Since I have been accused of self promotion. I'm an orthodontist and I am referred patients from sleep Docs to make the oral appliances for their patients that can't tolerate the Cpap machine. I am not legally allowed to diagnose these patients but I can screen them for my referring doctors. This is a very small part of my practice and is no different than making a retainer, so it's a natural fit. I just started administering home sleep test to save the from transitioning back in forth between their sleep doc and my self because verification that the appliance is necessary for the patients insurance acceptance. Since I do interact with this population I see the amazing transformations in their health and hear about how badly it affected them. Now I'm just waiting for Scott to come out to CA so I can make his appliance and retire shortly after with the wheel barrels of money I make off him.

[scottfromiowa]

To he who has no name:

1) Don't need testing. Dont want testing. BMI well below guidelines that would "cue" a referral...

2) Price for testing (thousands) was provided by AvWeb and others that are much more "in the know" on pricing than I.

3) Did not mean to imply that you would be retiring off "referals"...

Happy drilling,

Scott

[scottfromiowa]

Beer and Pizza we have in Iowa...Pebble and Torrey Pine's...THAT would be a "treat" worth a flight to the left coast.