Ownership dilemma

[GeorgePerry]

 

A few months ago I got a call from “big Navy”.  I was informed that I’d been selected to take command of a F-18E Superhornet squadron in Japan.  I feel humbled and blessed that the Navy saw fit to select me for this position; although it comes with some mixed emotions.  Not the least of which is - What the heck am I going to do with my Mooney? 

The dilemma I’m facing is whether or not I should sell or keep my Mooney while I’m stationed overseas in Japan.  It’s 2 1/2 year set of orders; a long time to “own” a plane that isn’t being used.  The good news is, I’m not slated to move until Nov/Dec of this year, so I’ve got some time to mull over my options.

I’ve thought hard about leasing to a trusted partner, but I’m torn on whether to do this.  I’m very particular about my possessions. I am not happy with anything less than near perfection when it comes to my stuff.  Because I’m not entirely comfortable with someone other than me flying my baby while I still own it, I’m torn between long term storage and selling outright.  

There are pros and cons to selling.  On the good side, it frees up a nice chunk of cash to invest, and save towards the next Mooney (I really want an M20S).  On the down side, I’ve spent a lot of time, effort, energy and money getting my 20F as close to “perfect” as is possible.  It’s a great bird that does exactly what I want it to.  My only reason for contemplating an Eagle is I’d like to go a bit faster.  But I’m aware that for an extra 30-40 knots I’ll need to spend an additional $100K+ to do it.

I don’t really want to sell….So my question to the group is:  Has anyone had any experience (Good or bad) with “long term storage” and engine and airframe preservation? 

If anyone who follows the boards "is" interested in making an offer, I might consider selling for the right price. 

Looking forward to hearing what the group has to say or any ideas on how I can bridge this gap.

 

[LFOD]

First of all, congratulations sir!  It is absolutely uncanny how many military guys have Mooneys.  Just when I think there can't be anymore, I run into another one...

I may be in the same position that you would be and I would most likely sell it if I was looking to move up.  Think about the shiny Eagle you could afford after 2.5 years of COLA payments. 

Then again, giving it to a trusted partner wouldn't be a bad deal either. I am sure that in your line of work, there would be plenty of people that would meet your criteria. 

I know I didn't help, but I think that any option would be acceptable. 

I would probably not pickle the engine and store the aircraft. That can't be good for the aircraft. 

[Buster1]

A few years ago I was faced with a similar situation by a move to Korea for a year then Italy for three...four years out of the country.  I folded, and sold my beloved Corvette with dreams of a shiny new one 4 years later.  It was a tough decision, as I was pretty attached, but storage for 4 years on that car would have broken my heart, and I'm sure done some long term wear on the machine as well. 

Eventually my dreams came true and the money from the sale of Vette #1, parlayed nicely with savings into Vette #2.  Vette # 2 isn't my first, but she's better in so many more ways, with better options, and all the bells and whistles.

Now... I realize that a car isn't a plane...and I don't know what I'd do if faced with your circumstances.  Come to think of it, I really haven't even thought of all that with the plan on purchasing getting nearer.  Tough call.

I think I know what I'd do, but the more I think about it, maybe it would be different next time.  There are so many variables with aircraft ownership, and finding one that is as "clean" as yours with a history you know, could be tough.  It seems to me that history and care weave into everything that is important with aircraft...way more so than cars.

Good luck, and keep us posted on what you end up doing.  I'm sure you would have a ton of interest if you put her on the market.

[rturbett]

I was taught that the worst thing to do for something mechanical was to not use it.

If there is any negotiating  with the job offer, remind the Navy that they are the worlds experts at moving aircraft across oceans!

Rob

 

[flight2000]

I just went through this same issue and since the possibility is always there, my brother is my back up plan if I get sent overseas for more than 12 months.  He's a commercial pilot and I'd trust him with my baby for a little while.  At least I know she'd be used.  I'm actually deploying this summer for 12 months, but got lucky and the local FBO owner is going to look after the aircraft while I'm gone.  He's owned a 65 E for 26 years, so feel he knows how to take care of one...

I take it your heading to Iwakuni?  I just left Okinawa last summer to attend ILE (old CGSC) at Fort Leavenworth.  I leave for the desert in July.

You'll really like Japan.

Brian

[Ned Gravel]

George:

Congratulations on being offered the command.  Many of us so priviledged consider this to be a near-sacred trust.  There are very few honours bestowed on someone that equal command.

But it is obviously going to come with a price (as if there weren't enough already). 

If I were to offer a suggestion, it would be to try and spend your time to find someone worthy to look after your bird, perhaps permanently, but look after nonetheless.  That way, you are not concentrating on the loss of your Mooney, but concentrating on finding her a good home.  Shifts the focus slightly but molifies the hurt.  Also sets you up for a good return to Mooney ownership when your tour is over.

Just my suggestion.

Good luck.

[Ned Gravel]

Quote: flight2000

 

I take it your heading to Iwakuni?  I just left Okinawa last summer to attend ILE (old CGSC) at Fort Leavenworth.  I leave for the desert in July.

You'll really like Japan.

Brian

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: edgargravel

George:

Congratulations on being offered the command.  Many of us so priviledged consider this to be a near-sacred trust.  There are very few honours bestowed on someone that equal command.

But it is obviously going to come with a price (as if there weren't enough already). 

If I were to offer a suggestion, it would be to try and spend your time to find someone worthy to look after your bird, perhaps permanently, but look after nonetheless.  That way, you are not concentrating on the loss of your Mooney, but concentrating on finding her a good home.  Shifts the focus slightly but molifies the hurt.  Also sets you up for a good return to Mooney ownership when your tour is over.

Just my suggestion.

Good luck.

[carusoam]

To the mooniac who "won't leave"....

Is there any possibility of using the mooney in Japan?  Sounds challenging, but the possible future experiences shared on MooneySpace sounds great to me.

My hopes for Your mooney.  Take it with you to Japan.  Fly it up and down the Pacific rim.  Share your experiences with the MooneyWorld.  Sell it when you leave Japan.

Purchase, new to you, M20S,R, or TN upon your succesful return stateside.  It may take a year or two to find the right one anyway.  If your serious about moving to a longbody, a sale of the M20F makes good sense.

Plan B: Pickle it.  There have been many Mooney's that have had less care, and have been left outside.  The first "annual" putting it back in service may be more expensive than usual.  A cost nobody "wants" to have.  But the airplane doesn't just fall apart when you are away.  Selling in today's market and buying in tomorrow's market will probably have an equally unpleasant cost.  (I know a good broker who could help you buy/sell ........never mind)

Plan C: Partner, friend who flies it, etc.

 

I pick plan A.  Fly the Pacific rim.  Sell medium body.  Get long body.  Sounds like the winds of fortune are blowing in your direction.  You will do alright with which ever way you choose.

Congratulations for being selected for such a great honor.  Thank you for your service.

Thanks for letting me share my humble opinion...

-a-

PS. the Blue Angels were on the East Coast this week.  I heard ATC ask "Blue Streak" to keep it under 380 kts around the Cherry Point area.

 

[mjc]

Quote: carusoam

Is there any possibility of using the mooney in Japan?  Sounds challenging, but the possible future experiences shared on MooneySpace sounds great to me.

My hopes for Your mooney.  Take it with you to Japan.  Fly it up and down the Pacific rim.  Share your experiences with the MooneyWorld.  Sell it when you leave Japan.

[drpep]

Congratulations George. As an old Navy seal from Canada your your future in the Navy will bring many surprises I suspect and many challenges. Your dilemma speaks to the relationship you have with your Mooney... what price can you put on that. Whatever you do I suspect you will find a way to continue to contribute to us all with your experiences and your passion for flying Mooneys.

Philip Perry

[fantom]

Sierra Hotel, George....can you bring your family?

Sell the Mooney. You won't have time for it, anyway.

[KSMooniac]

George, CONGRATS!  That is a huge honor and responsibility.  Selling vs. pickling is a tough call, but since you already have upgrade fever, I would vote for selling.  As mentioned above, since you have quite a few months before leaving, I think it would be a great idea to try to find that special buyer, perhaps local to you, that would either go in as a partner, or buy it outright and perhaps give you a chance to buy back in upon your return.  As time gets shorter, then perhaps put it on the market in conventional fashion and let her fly away to a new owner.  Mooneys want to fly, and I shudder to think about one sitting idle for a few years...even if the engine is pickled, you still need to worry about the rest of the airframe, electrical bits, etc. that should be exercised regularly.

Since we're in a down market currently, it is tough to predict if you would do better selling in the future vs. now, but I would be things will likely never fully recover for our vintage planes.  Thus, I think selling now and investing the proceeds with an eye towards M20S acquisition down the road would be the most prudent action.  The M20S will likely be more affordable going forward, too.

Good luck!

[flight2000]

Quote: edgargravel

Brian:

The one year course or the two year optional?  In my day we called the second year the "Jeddi Knight" course.

Good luck, sir.

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: KSMooniac

George, CONGRATS!  That is a huge honor and responsibility.  Selling vs. pickling is a tough call, but since you already have upgrade fever, I would vote for selling.  As mentioned above, since you have quite a few months before leaving, I think it would be a great idea to try to find that special buyer, perhaps local to you, that would either go in as a partner, or buy it outright and perhaps give you a chance to buy back in upon your return.  As time gets shorter, then perhaps put it on the market in conventional fashion and let her fly away to a new owner.  Mooneys want to fly, and I shudder to think about one sitting idle for a few years...even if the engine is pickled, you still need to worry about the rest of the airframe, electrical bits, etc. that should be exercised regularly.

Since we're in a down market currently, it is tough to predict if you would do better selling in the future vs. now, but I would be things will likely never fully recover for our vintage planes.  Thus, I think selling now and investing the proceeds with an eye towards M20S acquisition down the road would be the most prudent action.  The M20S will likely be more affordable going forward, too.

Good luck!

[KSMooniac]

George, you know Tom B, correct?  He is also an F18/M20E driver in your neck of the woods.  I would guess you have already gotten his opinion, but if not, then certainly look him up.

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: KSMooniac

George, you know Tom B, correct?  He is also an F18/M20E driver in your neck of the woods.  I would guess you have already gotten his opinion, but if not, then certainly look him up.

[KSMooniac]

My feelings are that the little things need to be exercised in addition to the engine.  The rod end ball joints, radio knobs, flap and gear motors, gyros, etc. are what I'm thinking about.  Proximity to the coast is a bad thing in this regard, too.  The engine is the least of my worries since there is a method to pickle one, but all of those other items could turn into major nuiscances when bringing it back to life, both in down time and cost potential.  That is why it is best to fly regularly...

Thinking ahead again, it might be worth a call to Jimmy G at All American (or someone else as knowledgeable) and ask a pro about a crystal ball prediction for the market in the next 6 months as well as +3 years.  My hunch would be we are near the bottom for vintage plane values, with upgraded planes starting to trend upwards slightly.  M20S models (10-ish years old) can only continue to depreciate, especially as more Ovations age (especially G1000 variants that will presumably have higher demand).  It might make the most sense to go ahead and part with your baby later this year, invest the money, and start working towards purchasing that M20S when you return...it should be a near-certainty that it will be easier to buy one in the future than today, barring rampant inflation or some other external factor.

If you weren't really interested in upgrading, and could have someone exercise the F while you're away, then it would make more sense to keep it.  The suggestion about bringning it overseas would be very intriguing too, provided you have (a) the time to fly it and ( the rules allow it over there (I have no idea).  There is a strange lease-back operation at my home base that might work for you if there is something similar at your base...one guy administrates the operation using various airplanes from various owners, along with various freelance instructors as appropriate.  The planes get put on the line like ordinary rentals, but the checkout requirements vary with each plane/owner.  This of course opens up the planes to potential yahoos, but if you structure the checkout requirements appropriately, it can work well enough to keep the plane flying without getting abused.  There has to be a sweet spot for a reliable/efficient traveling plane that might suit some serious pilots in your area...you could set the rate high enough to discourage the idiots (maybe!) and mandate checkouts with a Mooney-savvy CFI of your choosing in order to minimize the risk.  The plane also becomes a business so there are tax advantages at this point too, so it might help defray some of the cost of ownership while you are unable to use it.  Personally, I would have a hard time letting others fly my baby, especially when I'm half-the-world away and can't supervise!  But, I would consider doing something like that if it meant I could keep it while I had no plans to upgrade (my current situation).  If I had dreams on something else, though, I think I would move her on to the next caretaker and just bide my time until returning.  It is quite the dilemma...

[flight2000]

That was odd.  Ron posted under my log in.  This forum has some weird gremlins running around in it...

Brian

[KSMooniac]

One more tidbit about selling now and getting that S later...you could look at Jimmy G's M20R/S value guides and check the price differences for 10 year old vs. 13 year old models right now to get an idea of how much they might depreciate going forward another 3 years.  It should also be easier to find a good example of an M20S (10-13 years old) vs. an M20F (34-43 years old) just due to age and less need to modify/upgrade/maintain the modern airframe. 

[Ron McBride]

Another thought. If you moved it to Japan, could it be sold over there, and what would the market bring?

Interesting, my log in changed toflight 2000 some how.

 Ron N9154V

 

[140pilot]

First post here long time lurker. I would be more than happy to exercise your 20F while you are overseas. Only problem is it has been close to 10 years since I drove something with one of those new fangled nose wheels on it. Are you based over at PVG ? I used to have one of the old dirt floor hangars right across from Eads and it was always a joy shoe horning my 20C into that hangar. Of course I get rid of the 20C right when SFQ called me for a new hangar. I ended up buying an old Cessna 140 and restoring it and still have it over at SFQ. Quite a different type of flying from the Mooney but great fun.

My business has expanded across the state and I have been pondering buying another Mooney. Still on the fence but cutting 4 hour drives to one hour flights sure is attractive! Of all the planes I have owned the Mooney is the only one I can honestly say I miss.

 

Oh well one day!

 

Russ

[GeorgePerry]

Russ

Shoot me a PM with your contact info and maybe we can meet at the airport to discuss

George

[SpookyTex]

Have you looked into the cost of shipping it overseas? Would the government consider a personal aircraft as household goods and ship it for you much like a POV? I may be looking at the same dilemna next year, but to Europe, which would be much more accomodating to bringing an aircraft.

 

DP

[flight2000]

Quote: SpookyTex

Have you looked into the cost of shipping it overseas? Would the government consider a personal aircraft as household goods and ship it for you much like a POV? I may be looking at the same dilemna next year, but to Europe, which would be much more accomodating to bringing an aircraft.

 

DP