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Just to update everyone, Upon inspection with the FAA Inspector and A&P/IA, they found that the internal baffles had broken off inside the muffler. The FAA Inspector and IA noticed heat marks and deformation on the inlet pipes going into the muffler housing indicating that the exhaust gases couldn't flow smoothly out of the exhaust and became trapped. They determined that the piece of the exhaust baffles had become lodged and obstructed almost all of the exhaust exit hole in the muffler, thus causing the immediate reduction in power and inability for the engine to run properly or make any power to maintain flight. They did say that they had seen this once before on a different aircraft and normally when a muffler fails the pieces simply blow out the tailpipe. I guess I got very unlucky that mine got stuck. I was very lucky however, that i had such a great spot to make an emergency landing!! We got a new muffler overnighted and made the necessary repairs yesterday. The FAA approved all of the work and all the ground runs showed that the problem was corrected. I was able to take off yesterday afternoon with the plane and fly it back to my local field. I played it safe and made the trip at a high altitude so I had options should any issues arise on the way back. I will say that the FAA Inspector was amazing and did a great job. He never approached with the attitude that he was out to get me and if anything, he was extremely understanding and compassionate to the issues. He reiterated several times that I did the right thing and made safe decisions to result in this positive outcome. He said this is why we have emergency procedures and pilots should never hesitate to use them! Then he said, Never let your pride get in the way of your safety! Thanks all for the kind words above and thanks for reading. Stay safe and fly Smart- Matt

ADF "boat" antenna. FWIW, the contemporary use seems to be as a wear block to protect the belly in the event of a gear-up landing. I've seen a couple examples where that worked really well.

Just to update all my fellow MooneySpace Family, I was the PIC of this flight. It happened quick as most emergencies do. We (my family and I) were in solid IMC at 5k when I lost almost all power very suddenly and without warning. I worked through the emergency procedures checklist but had no success. I advised ATC of my issues and started a descent to VMC about 1000’ ft below. After the emergency procedures didn’t recover the power loss, I advised I was declaring and proceeded to get vectors for the nearest field. I was about 9 miles from the nearest and I worried if I lost the engine we may not glide all the way to the field. When we broke out, I could see what I thought was an airstrip about a mile or two off the nose. ATC advised I was near a private airfield and I thought that’s what I was looking at. I informed ATC of my intentions to circle this field and make a landing. We landed safely and not a scratch on my family or the plane, thank god! Only after I landed did I find out we landed on the Consumer Reports testing facility track. It’s about 4400’ long and makes a great emergency LZ! Now to work through the process to determine what happened and what’s next. This is a sobering reminder of why to practice practice practice, constantly refresh yourself with the POH and your checklists and stay sharp! I credit my save to my flight training and the many days I spent with my CFI working through this stuff! I will continue to be a student of the game and always press myself to study, practice and stay sharp! …..your life and others depend on it!

My rocket TSI520NB engine had about 1400 hrs on it when I was forced to remove 6 perfectly good ECI Titan cylinders due to an AD and put 6 new ones which I got from Victor because I had them do the multi-angle valve job described here. Now I am at about 1950 hrs.

I'm sick and tired of listening to people talk about their grievances!

Just FYI, I find this guy’s programming to be the best out there. Suggest you give it a look. I am not affiliated in any way, just appreciate it.

Jimmy Garrison is very well regarded here on MS. I believe his handle is @jgarrison https://www.gmaxamericanaircraft.com/

The HP required to fly with x weight is and has been well known for a very long time. The most inefficient flight is vertical, that’s why helicopters require so much engine power. 300 HP in a helicopter to carry what 100 hp can in an airplane. Yes you can build a quad copter to take a little 90lb girl on a 10 min flight, but you can’t build one to take two 200 lb men across town, not battery powered anyway. Which brings me to one of two conclusions. 1. Either these people are stupid or think that any day now a magic battery will come into existence that will contain 10 times the power of current batteries. 2. These things are scams, and in fact I believe there has been huge amounts of money garnered from big companies, so people of course believe if Honda for example is looking into it, it must be plausible, then the FAA piles on issuing rule making on EVTOL heliports, again making people believe any day now it’s coming. Just look at the numbers. My Tesla battery pack is 50 KWH and weighs in the neighborhood of 1,000 lbs, there is additional weight for cooling, but ignore that for now. So how much gasoline does it take to replicate the 1000 lb Tesla battery pack? Gasoline has 33.7 KWH of energy in it so the answer is 1.5 gls of gas is 50 KWH. 1.5 gl of gas is 9 lbs. I admit it’s not that simple as gas engines are at best about 20% efficient and electric can be as much as 95%, but you just can’t lift the battery, the vehicle and any decent payload for more than a few minutes, ignore the fact that completely discharging a Lithium battery in 10 minutes is hell on its cycle life, generates enormous amounts of heat etc. Until that magic battery is built this is all wishful thinking. Elon Musk has stated years ago that he wants to build an airplane, he’s even done the math and published the results. I think from memory he says it will take a 400% increase in energy density to even become remotely viable. That’s from memory so it could be way off.

During Oshkosh, I noticed Mike Busch had an interesting seminar - in my opinion over the last 30 years it seems he has changed his opinion some after the advent of Walter, John and George but- longer conversation. Good luck to him with Savvy…. One of his lectures was “TBO5000-“ a story of how by circumstance, players involved and more led to an engine that made it to 5000 past TBO and more- as a combination of oil testing, dig Lsing engine behaviors and mechanical oversight. I’ve overhauled engines in aircraft prematurely on at least 2 airplanes…and in fact I paid I advance for an overhaul some years back that I just received recently. I’ve become more and more of the opinion that if you’re getting regular oil analysis, flying the engine regularly even after a long non flying spell, use an engine monitor, borescope and check compressions regularly, TBO is good for the Union workers at Lycoming but arbitrary as the lottery.

Service Instructions or Service Bulletins are not required for Part 91 even if marked "mandatory". If the FAA writes an AD and cites an SI or SB or whatever as the means of compliance, then it becomes required for the affected aircraft.

Did that last week in my E. Over 100* 2 of the 3 take offs. Piece of cake.

120mpg in climb is sweet spot. Keep mo pegged and 2500 rpm. THEN if you want to go fast burn some gas. 11.5gph at 7500 to 10k is where E is hauling. The plane is NOT a turbo so higher just sacrifices MP…and speed. You have a beautiful plane. Enjoy!!!

Thanks so much. The latest theory is a stuck check valve. New one is ordered, though probably soaking the pump will have done the trick. It is, in theory an easy and cheap fix. We hope!

I think I may wait until the FAA contacted me before I did anything especially if your not an A&P. Plus leaving will be an issue, not sure what required paperwork is but there will be something, way back 40 years ago we had a guy in flight school that dead sticked his Piper into the Super bowl parking lot from fuel exhaustion. That didn’t upset the FAA but him putting fuel in it and taking off did. At least that was the story I heard, he disappeared from Flight School.

Any MSC can get you the STC. If you go to the Mooney factory web page they should have a list of Mooney Service Centers. Make sure your propeller qualifies before you shell out the $5000 for the STC

There can be quite a bit that goes into changing them. As Scott mentioned above you may need to change the actual yoke (behind the panel). I wrote up a post when I changed mine. I was able to buy them from a plane that was being salvaged. They don't come up for sale very often and usually go quickly when they do come up for sale. They are pricy, but the difference in how they feel....

I'd politely assert that following through on deals in progress for established customers to ensure their efficient closure would be a slightly higher priority, there already being money changing hands for deposits, inspections, etc., but that's a minor quibble; your point re ensuring good communications in general is 100% valid. Jimmy worked a near miracle to ensure my 231 sale closed given the 2008 economic collapse started after we'd already gone under contract and started inspections, etc.; and said collapse had a huge impact on currency exchange rates, which really put a pinch on my non-US buyer. But we got it done! --Up.

I've flown large dogs for PnP. They've hoppped in as though it was a car. I use a seat belt tether.

Very interesting, thanks. I called Cygnet today and they said that the adapter for the older-style shafts is typically considered a minor mod that doesn't require a 337 (although it varies by A&P). Seems installing the Cygnet control wheel on the existing tubes would be easiest approach, versus having to search for a new 201-style yoke/control sheet/shaft. Thanks everyone for the helpful responses above!

I've had to work with the FAA on matters that were my fault and I have had the same experience. Professional, helpful and not out to get anyone. If you are argumentative with them then I imagine they will be like that with you. This was recently on my mind because I attended the "Quarter Turn Fasteners and Aircraft Accidents - No Way!" webinar this past Wednesday and there was as short discussion from an FAA inspector on whether they should "cheerlead" safety programs or be "enforcers and auditors". In case you're thinking that's a stupid webinar, I had my doubts, but it wasn't at all. It was very enlightening and informative.

A guy I used to work with did a lot of work with NASA and other space people. He told me about an electric car competition held here in the Phoenix area back in the early 80s at PIR (NASCAR track). Everybody was building cars with lead acid batteries or Ni-cad batteries. Most of the cars would barely make 40 MPH and 20 miles range. He borrowed an Apollo fuel cell from NASA and his team built a car around it. After the first day of testing at the track his team was disqualified because they were using fuel. They were out on the track doing hot laps at way over 100 MPH and he said they had about 500 miles of range. Too bad the fuel cell cost a few million dollars....

I'm sadly dealing with that exact issue right now. Very hard to get a hold of or get any real information out of.

Definitely +1 to Jimmy

I suspect by baffle they are talking about the flame tubes? They seem to cause more issues than they are worth. They are supposed to minimize erosion and local heating of the outside skin of the muffler, but occasionally fail in the way you experienced. The funny thing is that any given day, the fleet of aircraft are flying around D with no flame tubes, because they have departed. I have personally not seen a negative affect of no flame tubes…. I think there is even one overhauled who has approval to leave them out. Not sure where I’m going with this except to vent about flame tubes that seem to be far more problematic then the problem they were supposed to solve. I think they even scrub some power. Has anybody seen a failure of the exhaust because the flame tubes were missing?

One thing to check is to see if the light socket on the gear light for visual indicator in the floor may be shorting intermittently. We just ran into a very similar problem on a K-Model at our shop and it turned out to be a bad gear down limit switch. It should also be noted that the gear rigging should be checked ( which requires special tooling) if the switch is changed. We check the gear rigging on Mooneys at annual at our shop.

Probably the best way to increase longevity is to run at lower power. Mike Bush told me he runs at about 65%. The airlines used to run the big radials less than 60%.

The volume on the P2 is adjustable if it’s too loud for you. Love mine. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I too have been wondering what direction to go with the yokes. I was able to wire the PTT where the old wing level button was but when I get the GFC500 installed, I will want newer yokes. The added plate for the GFC500 trim and disconnect looks pretty bad. I have been thinking about doing the Cygnet Aerospace yokes with a proper trim switch and all the buttons where they should be. They make adapters to fit our torque tubes. https://www.cygnet-aero.com/products

12 years has to be taken with a large grain of salt. First you need to understand what TBO really means, it’s actually sort of a guarantee that if operated IAW the POH and MM that an engine will last at least that long, Hartzell prop is I believe also 12 years as I think many accessories are too. I’d bet average airplane in the fleet was built in the 70’s, possibly the 80’s and average airplane is on their first overhaul. Mine is an 81 I think 2200 TT and 500 hours or so into its first overhaul and I think pretty average. That makes her 41 years old and following calander TBO she would have gone through 3.5 engines. Another way of looking at it is a frequently flown airplane flies 100 hours a year, most significantly less, maybe 50, so 20 to 40 years to hourly TBO and I think that’s pretty common. Many countries enforce TBO, if you lived in one of them your buying an engine, prop and a bunch of accessories every 12 years. Aging is hugely dependent on how it’s cared for and stored, particularly stored.

Oasis Aero (a Mooney Summit Sponsor this year with a donation of an Annual inspection) can get this done in short order. Thanks Eric! Some lucky bidder will have a first rate maintainer work on his plane while supporting the Mooney Community !

#2 is by the oil cooler. So a baffle leak will create more pronounced issues. Obviously the baffle seals are the first suspect. Also check the seal between the engine and the aluminum baffle itself as well as the positioning of the inter-cylinder baffles which are often installed incorrectly. Finally make sure the probe is accurate.

I would think that having ignition advance on both ignition sources to be the real benefit.

Great airmanship!!

My #1 is consistently the lowest, #2 is second lowest the rest are all close together.

That would pop the gear actuator breaker rather than the gear warning breaker.

The other thing I have noticed(although it's been 16 years) is this airplane is way more pitch sensitive than the 231. The ALT hold on the autopilot only works good in really smooth air so I've been just using heading and leaving my hand on the trim.

The gear warning system works, the horn sounds when the manifold pressure is below 12”-13” and the breaker does not trip. It seems to only trip after the gear is down and locked. I have a vague memory of reading how the system works and thought that once the gear is down and locked, the circuit with the warning horn is open, if I remember that correctly, I could probably rule that part of the system out. But, like I said, that’s a vague memory so I may be wrong.

No Mooney experience but in my limited experience with Turbo Continentals is the cylinder’s life span if flown frequently is directly related to how hard and Hot they are run. If MP and RPM are the same LOP is lower power and that means cooler and that I believe significantly increases life. I think it’s pretty simple, significantly increase power and you run hotter and harder and those decrease life. TANSTAAFL It’s the price of going fast, want longer life? Slow down and run LOP. That’s true for NA engines too. Biggest reason car engines last so long is they are operated at such a low power almost all of their life, it’s not that they are superior to aircraft engines. Run a Sportfisherman at high power and they don’t last long either. Oh and it’s my opinion that if you take brand new cylinders to a GOOD cylinder guy and get them to replace and HONE valve guides and do a good 5 angle valve job that it’s not uncommon for them to go to TBO, but if you take them out of the box and install them it’s very likely they won’t. I think a good overhaul to the above procedures will last longer than new as well.

An OP takes a moment to share a fairly excruciating if not traumatic experience with us here at the board that involves death, family and children. Then by whatever methods, the thread is allowed to devolve into a pissing contest. As a community, i find that in terribly poor taste. A thread of this kind should genuinely be about providing an ear for the OP, supporting the OP, lending a helpful hand, and hopefully not pulling out the rulers for appropriate measure. There are hundreds of other threads for that. IANAL, and what’s typed is strictly my own opinion.

Interesting what happened this weekend with longtime trucking giant “yellow”. I’m sure there’s two sides to the story but from a 30k’ view, the Union at least helped dig its’ own grave. It draws a lot of comparison to both aviation and trucking being highly regulated, high liability, competitive industry. In todays world where each camp has convinced it’s’ people that they are under appreciated and owed more, I fear it doesn’t stop with Yellow. And by no means is it limited to the “millennials”. I listen to 50-60 year old men seeping with entitlement every day. They have been allured away from the principal of self responsibility and happy to determine their circumstances are someone else’s fault.

We owned an RV-6 for four years before we bought our J. The RV was fun to fly but I never really felt comfortable with it. It very much had that "built in a garage" feel. And ours was a VERY nice RV-6. I can't begin to tell you how much more "substantial" the Mooney is. It's just a real airplane. I feel confident in my chances if I end up off-airport. I don't mind paying a bit more for maintenance knowing everything that's done is properly documented and faa approved. It's just a peace of mind that I can't put a price on. I'm much more relaxed in the Mooney for many reasons. I would never go back to experimental. Just my 2c....

Right to work cannot overcome Railway Labor Act. If you have sections of a plant that all workers cannot traverse, that is a management failure either in culture or discipline. There is plenty of blame to go around. Remember when autoworkers accused of building crappy cars? Then it turned out that when someone discovered "Drucker", the guy the Japanese used, they also discovered that assembly errors are just as much the fault of management through poor engineering and sloppy tolerances as it was the worker. For many years things were engineered and produced sloppily and the assembly worker was relied upon to "make it right". Since we are being anecdotal here, my late wife was a comptroller at a Ford Assembly plant. The first woman to reach such a position at FoMoCo. The workers were being accused of stealing stereos. They even had the stereos caged with alarms. Then they started not installing the stereos but putting them in the truck for the dealer to hook up. Still they disappeared and management continued to blame the workers. My wife said, "These men have good union jobs, I am dubious of the claim". She took to hiring some PI's who discovered homeless in the train yards were stealing them off cars on the rail cars. How? They put the keys in the car and leave it unlocked when they load the car. Duh!!!! My wife was always cheered on the plant floor for that and many other things. Management is more than profit and loss.

Finally got to the bottom of this issue with Garmin's help. It seems the problem is that if Garmin Pilot is connected to both the FlightStream 510 and a GDL 50, then the EIS data will not be displayed. This morning when flying without a connection to the GDL 50 the EIS data displayed correctly. I sent the information to garmin with the debug logs and hopefully they will be able to fix the issue so I can be connected to both again.

I hate to say of course not, so I’ll put it another way. Ask yourself if you have some kind of skill or knowledge that makes you worth more than minimum wage? If not, why not? Some don’t have the aptitude and those we should assist, but if for instance you’re eligible for the draft, you shouldn’t be getting public assistance. I’m not saying draft them, but if they meet that requirement, then they can work, maybe not jobs they want, only a few get paid for playing video games, but if they can serve, then they either can, or they can mow lawns, dig ditches whatever. There are options available for all, I’ve seen many come from not much succeed. I have several stories. See I think raising the min wage to say $20 plus an hour will only result in Mcdonald’s and other min wage jobs being automated and hugely curtailed, they did it back in the 50’s, automated food service that is. I believe the only reason those kind of jobs aren’t automated is that workers are cheaper than the machines. Guaranteed minimum income is insane, that guarantees a large population that will just sit around and likely spend the day getting high, larger than we already have. This was real, not a concept. Only thing that kept it from becoming mainstream was cheap, back then likely high school kids labor. Which brings up, where are all the High School kids now? Where do they work after school? I only see old people working in what used to be High School kids only, fast food, movie theaters, skating rinks etc. Why do the kids no longer work? The whole point way back then was to teach them a work ethic and frankly have them learn on their own why they needed either a skill or knowledge. We are making a big mistake in my opinion in thinking a person’s first job should be after they graduate College with that Liberal Arts degree.

I see your line of thinking with waiting until the overhaul to install the engine monitor, but just playing that out... what if your engine doesn't need an overhaul until 2500 hrs? 3000hrs? Do you really want to wait 1000hrs to have the engine monitor? Then there's the wasted money on buying and hooking up the Aerospace Logic displays to the CIES senders vs. doing what you really want. I would also bet that the money to hook up your existing engine monitor to a new engine is not considerable - mostly installing the probes, and most of the primary probes would have to be installed to your existing equipment when you'd swap the engines out regardless, so the only "new" work would be the EGT probes more than likely. I'd say just get it taken care of now, do the CIES senders, a primary engine monitor and enjoy it for the next few years. Plus, being able to have better insight into your engine... maybe you'll get even more life out of it before you have to overhaul.

You notice they don’t fly it any higher than they are willing to crash and always over nice soft sand.

Just don't stick your hand out!

I would just cross it out with a note that said “??? Huh, doesn’t belong in this logbook” and sign it as the airplane owner. Nobody will ever care. From a legal standpoint, it doesn’t mean jack. You are only required to keep maintenance records till the next annual. From a practical standpoint, It is a lot easier to prove things if the original sign offs can be found. Plus the world puts value on maintenance records far beyond what is legally required.

I cancelled my Flying subscription when they went in the inexplicable direction of increasing printing and production costs with thicker paper stock and less useful content and more glitzy pics. I really don't get it, so it clearly isn't aimed at me as part of their demographic.