Practicing Stalls in Mooneys (Poll)

[Alan Fox]

Here is a real genius....

[jetdriven]

That's how you do the landing too, all three wheels at once.

[mikefox]

Just a note:  "Deep Stall" is a term usually applied to the situation when the wake of the stalled main wing 'blankets' the horizontal stabilizer and elevator, making recovery difficult or impossible!  It is more likely in T-Tail aircraft.

 

In most fixed-wing aircraft, the more one exceeds critical AOA, the more abrupt and significant the nose drop, and recovery is still accomplished conventionally - forward movement of the yoke to reduce the AOA to below the critical value, keep the aircraft in coordinated flight with rudder, and keep neutral aileron until the aircraft is flying again

[Alan Fox]

I wonder the spin in the Beech was unrecoverable????  Nasa does do funky stuff to aircraft to test them....  Maybe rear CG ??? Also , why did he shut down.....

[johnggreen]

The details of the NASA spin test have not been made public so far as I know.  It is highly unlikely that an unmodified Bonanza got into an unrecoverable spin with an experienced test pilot.

 

As to the video of the guy "spinning" the Mooney in the previous post.  That was not a spin.  Not even a break into a spin.  He simply pushed the nose down and spiraled.  The break into a spin would have included a roll of at least 120 degrees to inverted and the rotation many times faster.

 

I would love to put that witless bozo into an aerobatic airplane and do a five turn spin, but only if he was required to clean out the back seat.

 

Jgreen

[aviatoreb]

201er -- the folks at PoA brought up a thread on spins. They have links to the spin work that was done and put out on YouTube. Here is one video -- check out what happens around 12 minutes. This is a Bonanza:

If you go into YouTube and search "Joe Brownlee Spins" you will find a few other GA spin tests.

 

Wow - I wonder what went wrong that caused him to have to leave the airplane?  I always wondered about those test pilots leaving a spinning unrecoverable airplane with a parachute - it must still be pretty dangerous to do that since as you depart the airplane I would imaging the airplane could hit you or otherwise you could get hung up and stuck on the tail or something.  I do notice he makes his decision quickly and stops the engine so he can depart the airplane more safely.

 

Love that handlebar moustache.

[Marauder]

I wonder the spin in the Beech was unrecoverable????  Nasa does do funky stuff to aircraft to test them....  Maybe rear CG ??? Also , why did he shut down.....

 

I wondered about the engine shutoff as well. i thought maybe it was to make the door opening easier. Or maybe to prevent it from flying away on it's own if it did come out of the spin.

 

Did you also see the strings outside of the plane? Wonder if he tried to use a drogue chute to recover. I remember Bill Wheat mentioning this once during one of his talks on Mooney certification. He said that during one spin demonstration he had to be deployed. Ever read your POH on spins? Talks about flat spins. I'm guessing Bill knows for sure.  

[marks]

I owned a Tomahawk.  A power-on stall in a Tomahawk was less of an event than a power-on stall in my J because the Tomahawk couldn't climb at as hign an angle as the Mooney.  Of course the trick in either plane is to keep the ball centered.  I'm not scared of stalls, but I never liked 'em.

[N201MKTurbo]

The guy in the video did a good job recovering from the stall. I bet his passengers will never want to fly with him again.

[Hank]

Was that oil on the windshield? Strangd his it was only on the left side, and it appeared to grow larger after he bailed. Maybe that's why the prop stopped.

[DaV8or]

What is the purpose of practicing the full stall? Is it to hone and test aircraft handling skills, or is it to prepare you for that day when you accidentally find yourself in a full stall? Is it both?

 

Many say that the Skyhawk and Warrior are no good for stall and spin training because they are too easy to recover and don't represent other types of aircraft one might encounter. It is suggested to get spin training in a Citabria. It seems to me that the Citabria is about as far away from a Mooney as I can imagine. If you become an expert at spin recovery in a Citabria, does that make you an expert at spin recovery in all aircraft and therefor no longer afraid of spins? Could this not give you a false sense of security that might embolden you to go where you shouldn't?

 

I have to take the unpopular view and side with the FAA. Best to learn the signs of a stall and take action before the stall ever occurs. The fatality rate for piston single flying is much lower than it was in the good ol' days when spins were required for the PPL. We must be doing something right.

 

In the Mooney, I say do a full stall one time with a qualified Mooney instructor just to see what it's like and what your airplane does. After that, practicing approach to stall to the point of buffet is good enough. If you miss the stall warning horn and you miss the shaking buffet and you don't notice your extreme nose up attitude and you don't notice the mushy controls, I'm pretty sure you're not going to notice the ball not centered. Focus on what happens before the stall, not after. Not that many stalls that actually killed people happened at 6,000 ft, nor did they predictably drop straight forward with a potentialy easy recovery.

[BigTex]

I've done spins (including inverted) in Citabria's and Decathlon's in competitions requiring me to stop on heading within a few degrees.  Even with this level of spin proficiency, if I find myself in a base to final spin, I'm dead.  There's no way a plane not designed to have good spin characteristic can recover in time. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big proponent of attending a basic 10 hour aerobatic class to improve your stick and rudder skills.  But I don't think that the altitude that most accidental spins occur, you'll have the altitude to recover even if your skilled in spins.  Especially planes not designed for spins.  The only time I see it might provide some value is flying VFR into IMC conditions at cruise altitude.  In that case, at least you'll have altitude on your side.

 

I'd love to see the statistics on the precentage of spin accidents occurs higher than pattern altitude.  I would bet it's pretty low.

 

My 2 Cents.

[aviatoreb]

 

I'd love to see the statistics on the precentage of spin accidents occurs higher than pattern altitude.  I would bet it's pretty low.

 

 

Good point and good question.

[piperpainter]

OMG!! IF you can't handle doing stalls please don't even takeoff! That scares the crap out of me knowing someone is scared to fly an airplane to it's limits. If you know your airplane and get comfortable with stalls you will have good landings consistantly and you'll also be more comforable on shorter fields. Wooo.... now I'm worried!

[aaronk25]

OMG!! IF you can't handle doing stalls please don't even takeoff! That scares the crap out of me knowing someone is scared to fly an airplane to it's limits. If you know your airplane and get comfortable with stalls you will have good landings consistantly and you'll also be more comforable on shorter fields. Wooo.... now I'm worried!

Do you own a mooney? Have you stalled one or are you a piper owner like your name suggest. I'm not scared of stalling my bird, as long as the intent is to recover as soon as a wing starts to break. Now hold that yoke back for another second or 2 longer and you will be going for a he k of a ride.

Ps I fly 300 hours a year for business, and know my bird like the back of my hand. I also have a healthy respect for avoiding DEEP stalls.

[aaronk25]

Those are some cool videos.....very entertaining.

[marks]

I agree that the vast majority of deadly spin accidents happen at low altitude where the recovery is impossible due to the altitude.  If pilots would also refrain from making "the death turn" back to the runway a good number of spin accidents resulting in death would be avoided.  Remember, whether we're talikng about intentional spins or spacial disorentation,  "All the deadly screw-ups begin with a turn."

[scottfromiowa]

This thread started with the poster asking if anyone else was afraid to practice stalls in their Mooney....to DEEP STALLS....

Several people got real defensive on a position of practicing stalls in their Mooney is not inviting death. I don't practice or ever do deep stalls in my Mooney. I practiced a stall one time under instruction with the ball not centered. Lesson learned to NOT do that again. I respect my plane, but I don't fear it.

If that labels me as having a bad attitude I am good with that. Fly 'em however you feel comfortable. What me worry?

[Alan Fox]

Just found out that the Video of the Beech was not a Nasa video , It was a test flight for stall characteristics from a tip tank manufacturer...

[Alan Fox]

I just lost a friend to spins yesterday....Need I say any more....http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20130701/NEWS/307010033/Plane-crashes-off-Ocean-City