VFR into IMC

[marks]

Robert, The roller coaster ride should be over.  Given the serious nature of the post it's wrong to change it into a discussion of engine settings for climb, or ROP vs LOP or Camguard or anything else.  It's OH-VAH.

[FloridaMan]

[robert7467]

ha

[Earl]

Wow, I've been away from this thread for a bit and it sure took an interesting turn.  While I think some of the posts were a bit harsh as more facts have dribbled out there does appear to be a trend of poor decision making that originated from your training and the mentoring you got during your training.  That has apparently translated into poor decision making which you have pointed out and seem to understand.  But you have to understand that for those of us out there flying IFR, VFR pilots that punch holes in clouds for fun and/or inadvertently get into trouble scare the heck out of us.  We just don't want to share the airspace we are in legally with someone that shouldn't be in the same place at the same time.  This is especially true in non-radar environments where there may by no warning.

 

I am glad you are pursuing your instrument ticket but I think at the same time you need to also spend some time with a good CFI that can help you with your decision making and risk management strategy.  In the meantime, as you build experience and better decision making skills you should probably refrain from carrying passengers.  But I am here to tell you, if you take the same decision making approach to your instrument flying that you have taken with VFR flight you are in for some serious trouble.  Develop some very conservative personal minimums and stick to them religiously.

[robert7467]

Agreed, some people say an IFR rating is a legal way to kill yourself. Also I need to work on more aeromedical factors such as all the illusions. For a PPL as far as illusions are concerned, they don’t teach you much, but yet there are so many different types that I need to learn to recognize. When you get a PPL it’s easy to think as extensive as it is, you have all the information to keep you safe, which as I learned that is not the case. On a more positive note, even though I was shaken up on this, I am glad that I learned early on as it will help in all aspects of my flying, and the advice and encouragement that you all have given me has been valuable.

[marks]

Hey Earl, Did you read the part where he and his instrument rated instructor were flying in known icing in his Mooney with Ice building up on the airframe?  Of course he said it was a "non-issue", because there were a number of airports along the route.  What about the part where he went flying with a non-IR pilot into the clouds on purpose, but he explained that it was not so bad because they used flight following.  If these stories are true Robert needs to admit that both the instrument rated instructor and the 30 year non-IR pilot were both idiots, and that he was too for flying with them.  If he took the written and knows the regs regarding VFR flight he must have known that these guys just don't worry about the regs.  Certainly he should know that a Mooney with no de-ice equipment doesn't belong in known icing.  I think Robert needs to go back to parachuting to satisfy his self-described "adventurous" personality.  The people on the ground have a right not to have him flying a Mooney over their heads.

[robert7467]

mark, as far as the ice was concerned, it was just a little building up on the windshield, and we decended and it instantly blew right off. And like I said he was an instrument rated 8,000, CFII, with ATP and Helicopter ratings.

 

I can understand the non IFR punching through a small cloud issue, I get it.

 

But as a student, how the hell am I going to call the CFI with 45 years of exp an idiot? Or, being low time student pilot, how am I going to identify if he is an idiot? Oh, and BTW the weather said the ceilings were at 3700' with no precipitation.

 

I guess you dont get it, I was a low time pilot, this all happened prior to solo, before I even hit the books for the written. I didn't know about weather planning, aeromedical factors, about carb ice, aerodynamics or any of the rules and regs. I was with an instructor that was giving me my first few lessons, how the hell was I susposed to know?

 

Now, fast forward. I passed my written, I went through a 7 1/2 checkride, it would be a lot different if I did any of this after the fact.

 

I do know one thing for a fact.. You dont know me. If you had just met me, and we decided to take a flight somewhere you would be impressed with my preflight action, use of checklist, knowlege of my plane, flying ability. (I did make a bad decision, learned from it)

 

On a forum, I look like that guy that scud runs under thunderstorms, macho, its not going to happen to me, lets go have some fun and puch through clouds, fly bys, one beer wont hurt etc... That is entirely not the case.

[scottfromiowa]

Then just take the blows and stop defending yourself already. Just listen and learn and know that you scare the hell out of people that are rated and in the same potential cloud as you...flight following or not. Take the frigging pain and process it. Getting defensive and your rebuttals sound feeble...people do care, but stupid is as stupid does. No defense, but to say yep, I will practice and learn and get better and I will stay out of clouds, ice and away from un-rated purveyors of "knowledge".

Thank you sir may I have another? Is another acceptable reply.

Good luck, although that does not appear to be your issue...

[robert7467]

I am done... Your right Scott... This post becoming too stressfull, especially what happened over the weekend... I just need to sit back, relax and enjoy life, recoop and move on.

[marks]

Maybe it's the way you describe things, but you're right about one thing Robert... I don't get it.   

[BigTex]

Just a parting sad story... 

 

I was up in Oshkosh in 1979 (yes I'm old as dirt) and there was a guy up there named Neumann (no Seinfeld jokes!) .  He brought his newly finished aircraft called the Neumann N2 (we never figured out what happened to the N1).  He drew large crowds around showing off his handy work.  He was immensely proud of what he created.  He was the buzz of the '79 Oshkosh.  From what everyone there could tell he violated virtually every know commonly held standard or practice for building aircraft.

 

At the time I saw this plane, it has not flown, he hauled it in for display.  The general consensus was that this thing would never fly.  Unfortunately it did.  Somehow he managed to talk the FAA into providing him with an airworthiness certificate.

 

Well he flew it and as you can read from the excerpt below from the NTSB report, he performed light aerobatics and exceeded speed limitations.

 

Narrative:
THE NEWLY RATED PRT PLT WAS ON HIS 12TH FLT IN THE RECENTLY CERTIFICATED HOMEBUILT THAT HE HAD DESIGNED AND BUILT HIMSELF. WHILE PERFORMING AN UNKNOWN MANEUVER BOTH HORIZONTAL STABILIZERS AND BOTH WINGS SEPARATED FROM THE ACFT. THE ACFT WAS RESTRICTED FROM PERFORMING AEROBATICS HOWEVER, AN ACFT LOG THE PLT KEPT REFLECTED THAT HE HAD FLOWN THE ACFT IN A STEEP DIVE RECOVERING AT 140 MPH. THE ACFT WAS REDLINED AT 103 MOH. HE HAD ALSO LOGGED THAT HAMMER HEADS AND WING OVERS WERE PERFORMED BY HIMSELF IN THIS ACFT.

 

Complete Link: http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=40477

 

The moral to this story is that rules and regulations are in place for a reason.  If they are discarded, disastrous thinks can and will happen.  I think if Mr. Neumann was around today, he'd agree.

 

[201er]

WHILE PERFORMING AN UNKNOWN MANEUVER BOTH HORIZONTAL STABILIZERS AND BOTH WINGS SEPARATED FROM THE ACFT.

That sounds like something that could only happen in a cartoon!

[PTK]

Soooooooo... can anyone recommend a good aviation oil? How about additives? Any opinions out there?

(Wasn't me, I didn't do it!)

[Marauder]

Soooooooo... can anyone recommend a good aviation oil? How about additives? Any opinions out there. (Wasn't me, I didn't do it!)

No, but I do know parrots prefer Halo headsets over Bose... Sorry Mike, he (the devil) made me do it!

[xftrplt]

... I just need to sit back, relax and enjoy life, recoop and move on.

When you "recoop," do you prefer chicken, pigeon, or some other type in which to recoup?

Inquiring minds...

[robert7467]

I like pigeons

[robert7467]

I like pigeons their shit is not as corrosive to to the mooney airframe

[Hank]

I like pigeons

 

Me, too, especially roasted with some gravy and potatoes. They're too little to bother grilling.

[robert7467]

Hehe

[AndyFromCB]

Soooooooo... can anyone recommend a good aviation oil? How about additives? Any opinions out there?

(Wasn't me, I didn't do it!)

 

Phillips 20W-50 keeps the windshield pretty well ice free. I don't remember if I there was any Camguard in it. And yes, I was in moderate icing IMC, but I didn't panic cause I couldn't see the clouds out my window, thank Vishnu. Actually, the picture is right after touchdown, was a touch busy to snap any on descent. Didn't have time to "recoop", powerwashed the engine bay, fixed the damn problem, continued to Fargo about 2 hours later. What's it like to sit back and relax? Can I do it at home with foggles or do I need an instructor for that?

 

 

[robert7467]

How are your muffler bearings holding up?

[AndyFromCB]

How are your muffler bearings holding up?

 

I hope good, because M20M actually has muffler bearings ;-) They're in the turbo.

[robert7467]

Sorry, meant flux capacitor.

[merrja]

Robert,

 

Welll done making it out.... Eveyone on here has made poor decisions while building hours.    Never feel badly about canceling a flight, I have +1200 hours and an instrument rating and still canel flights ona regular basis whenever I don't feel PERFECTLY comfortable with any aspect of the flight.