A few questions before i pull the trigger

[marky_24]

My partners and I have narrowed our search down to 3 Mooney 201's. But I have some things I'm wondering about.

Sb m20-208 is this a one time or should it be done regularly? One plane I'm looking at had it done in 1987, corrosion was found and tubing was replaced, then again in 1988 with no corrosion and then in 1993 the tubes were "cleaned and treated and kit 208b was installed". Would you have the SB preformed again during pre purchase? Would you discount your offer for corrosion history?

Now what about fuel tank, almost all that I have looked at have NOT had there tanks resealed, I'm assuming that planes I'm looking at, 77-82, will need to have the tanks resealed in the near future? Would you discount your asking price say $4-5000 to cover at least half the cost of a reseal?

Any other big things to took for?

[bnicolette]

Not sure what to say about the corrosion. My airplane had the SB 208B done years ago and that was the end of it. During the pre buy they did look at the tubes for corrosion but none was present.

I have a 1982 J model. My tanks have never been sealed and also have never been patched. I suppose I am on borrowed time, but the previous owners always kept the tanks full and replaced the gear biscuits regularly. I have also kept up the practice of keeping the tanks full after every flight. Maybe my tanks will never leak??? (Not likely) If I were selling I don't think I would accept an offer than included a discount for something that there is not an issue with?

[N201MKTurbo]

I used to have a 67 M20F that had never been resealed, As of 2003 when I sold it it did not leak at all.

[Piloto]

I also have a 1982 M20J and the tanks has never been resealed or patch. Neither tubing corrosion. The plane has always being kept in a hangar.

However if there was tubing corrosion that needed tube replacement check for corrosion at other spots like: bottom main spar cap splice, wheel wells spar web, flap attachment points and other suspected spots.

José

[marky_24]

My thinking was people change there offer based on a Engine hours with out knowing the REAL condition of the engine, just going off a number. So why not build a little buffer in the price for a large expense that IS going to happen sooner or later?

[thinwing]

I think you are attempting to renegotiate your deal with seller.I can see while actual squawks on prebuy can effect the deal..trying to turn the clock back buy restoring potential problem areas to new condition is a new one!! I know if i was seller i would balk...the issue I would raise with my partners is do we want an aircraft with corrosion history at all.I always tried to find one from the western states,avoid coastal and humid climates etc....corrosion effects everything not just steel tubing from a leak which is a good indication a/c was stored outside and not in a hanger.Good luck with whatever you decide..k

[bnicolette]

My thinking was people change there offer based on a Engine hours with out knowing the REAL condition of the engine, just going off a number. So why not build a little buffer in the price for a large expense that IS going to happen sooner or later?

I understand where you're coming from but then don't you have to "build" in a little buffer for the HSI, AI, autopilot servos, Landing Gear no-back clutch spring, vacuum pump, etc??

If it was showing signs of leaking or had a history of patches, well then I could understand and would be onboard with that logic.

I wouldn't shy away from an otherwise good airplane if the seller wouldn't discount based on the inevitable.

Good luck in your search. You will love your new (to you) Mooney!!

[KSMooniac]

As a seller I wouldn't discount the price for future potential squawks. I agree that there is some value in a recent full reseal by a pro, though, but just because it hasn't been done doesn't mean it will need to be done in 6 months or 6 years even, and thus I wouldn't deduct from the planes value. Corrosion in the airframe and engine is the biggest concern IMO, along with steady use and maintenance over the years.

[jwilkins]

A lot of the aircraft VALUE is based on average condition of accessories and systems. Any aircraft has a lot of systems that may eventually need repair or replacement. The book value reflects that reality. The engine and airframe book values are adjusted for above or below AVERAGE times. Asking for a discount because something currently in serviceable condition may eventually need repair or replacement is not recognizing what the book value is based upon. Personally, as a seller, I would not even consider a request for a discount on the basis of possible future maintenance. As a wise and experienced Mooney dealer once told me; you check carefully to see what you have today but, it's an airplane, and anything might happen tomorrow.

For this particular airframe, the corrosion concerns me.

When you say" corrosion was found and tubing was replaced, then again in 1988 with no corrosion and then in 1993 the tubes were "cleaned and treated and kit 208b was installed". Would you have the SB preformed again during pre purchase? Would you discount your offer for corrosion history?"

Tubing replacement may indicate pretty major corrosion found. Since the SB 208 insulation kit was not installed at THAT time is also a concern to me. I'm surprised the insulation was not replaced at that time. I've bought Mooneys with multiple gear up landings, and other moderate damage history, partial missing logbooks, and neglected maintenance at an adjusted price with no hesitation. I'd really hesitate to buy a Mooney with recurring major tube corrosion. Bruce from Wilmar has photos of really nice looking Mooneys which were scrapped out due to the cost of corrosion tube repairs. If everything else is great on this plane I'd have the SB inspection done again by a Mooney shop that KNOWS how to do it correctly. Part of doing the inspection correctly involves removing the attach bolts and dragging a magnet inside the tube to check for interior rusting. I'd deal with this if it were already my plane, but I honestly would not buy one with this history unless it was one heck of a deal, and not a huge investment. Even if it were the deal of a lifetime, I'd get it carefully and thoroughly checked out by an expert. Even a great deal is not good if you end up scrapping the aircraft. It may be possible that the tubes were repaired but the window leaks causing the rust were not fixed, and the old insulation was still holding moisture against the tubes. Of course, if the repairs were done at a shop like Wilmar that has a LOT of experience with this, I'd call them and ask them why they think it recurred.

Corrosion just scares me. You can inspect the outside of the tubes, but not the inside. I suppose part of my paranoia is from growing up back East where the 'cancer' on our cars could be treated but never eliminated.

Other experiences and opinions may vary.

[Cruiser]

A plane is only worth what you and the seller agree to. You can start with a price and add/subtract items as you feel appropriate but you must get the seller to feel that your claims are appropriate. Do that and you have a deal. If not you move on.

Decide on what you can live with. You are not going to account for everything nor do you have to. Our planes need attention, use them and things wear out and go bad. It is part of ownership.

There is only one way to avoid all risk to the buyer............ order new.

[aaronk25]

How much are you looking to spend if I can ask?

[aaronk25]

How much are you looking to spend if I can ask?

[marky_24]

Trying to stay around 90-100k

[fantom]

Now what about fuel tank, almost all that I have looked at have NOT had there tanks resealed, I'm assuming that planes I'm looking at, 77-82, will need to have the tanks resealed in the near future? Would you discount your asking price say $4-5000 to cover at least half the cost of a reseal?

Even if the plane has good paint, interior and avionics, eventually it will need upgrades. Follow your thought to it's illogical concussion and maybe the poor seller should pay you to take the plane.

Some (one?) may say it never hurts to ask, but you run the risk of offending the seller and having them think you aren't serious. Then they may 'pull the trigger on you'.