Price out this non-Mooney please

[Mcstealth]

1960 Cessna 210

5225 Hours TTAF

1350 engine on a factory reman, 1500TBO

Cylinders have 400 or less hours on all six,

King KMA 24 Audio

King KX155 Com/Nav with KL 29 VOR?LOC/GS head

King KY97 com

KN 64 DME

King KT 76C Transp w/Encoder 9/2014

Centry IIB AP w/GPSS

BFG WX 900 Stormscope

JPI EDM 700 w/ fuel flow

Pilot and Co PTT

Radio Master switch

McCauley D2A34C58-0 w/ 1825 hours on it

Standby Electric horizion

Pulsing Landing lights

Soros Vents

Rosen Visors

Tail Strobe

Verticle Compass

Heated Pitot

Rear Vents

OAT

Annual Due 07/13

ELT Due 07/14

1090 Usefull Load

$36,000

Paint is in good condition. The interior if workable. The bird has been cared for. Flown for the last 3000 hours by the owner and maintained by the same A/P for the same amount. All AD's supposedly completed not that I can tell that easily. No GPS as the owner took it out to put into his new Centurian.

Advice is welcome. Sarcasm also

[KSMooniac]

What engine do those old 210s use?

To this non-Cessna afficianado, that sounds like bargain territory, presuming it has been regularly flying, isn't full of corrosion, and everything works. Being maintained by the same A&P is a potential double-edged sword IMO. Would be nice to have different eyes on it every few years.

Just remember that the purchase price is only half the equation... owning, operating and insuring is the other half, so make sure you know all about those costs on the C-210 side vs. a good M20. You'll probably have a plane similar in capability in terms of XC performance of a good M20E or F, but at 50% more fuel burn. Insurance might be more expensive too.

[John Pleisse]

Corrosion, corrosion, corrosion. Wing root attach points (where the wing meets the fuselage) and inside all empanage compnents.

[Skywarrior]

Didn't he write that it is a C201, vice C210?

[Alan Fox]

210s run IO520 continentals , it probably burns 15 an hour at 60% at 150 KTIAS ...... Complex gear system , still has wing struts..... If it makes prepurchase , 36K is all the money , Is he leaving the tray in for the gps , what model gps.... Could be a deal breaker......

[jetdriven]

I just flew a 1963 Cessna 210 with the IO-470. I ran it LOP (it did very well) with a digital single point EGT burning 11-11.5 GPH at 6500 (then 8500 feet). I didnt have an engine monitor so I ran it about 80 LOP on the digital EGT and it was still smooth with a 5-7 KIAS speed loss. Then i set it 15 LOP on the EGT and ran a 300 CHT on the factory guage. (This is what Jim R. does on his 201 without an engine monitor as well). That is balanced enough for me at 65% power. We were truing about 150 knots.

The buyer paid 33K. It has a 700 hour SMOH engine that used no oil in 6 hours. It had 6/6 P+I and a VFR GPS with a Narco COM1, KX155 COM2, and a 396 in a panel dock. I am a hard core Mooney guy, but those early 210s can really haul a load and not too bad on fuel if you are willing to run a little slower LOP.

They are indestructibe airplanes much like the Mooney, but will burn more fuel because they have a little more drag. But I was surprised at the 11 GPH.

[garytex]

A '60 model will have a O-470, and probably have a strut braced wing.

[Alan Fox]

I just flew a 1963 Cessna 210 with the IO-470. I ran it LOP (it did very well) with a digital single point EGT burning 11-11.5 GPH at 6500 (then 8500 feet). I didnt have an engine monitor so I ran it about 80 LOP on the digital EGT and it was still smooth with a 5-7 KIAS speed loss. Then i set it 15 LOP on the EGT and ran a 300 CHT on the factory guage. (This is what Jim R. does on his 201 without an engine monitor as well). That is balanced enough for me at 65% power. We were truing about 150 knots.

The buyer paid 33K. It has a 700 hour SMOH engine that used no oil in 6 hours. It had 6/6 P+I and a VFR GPS with a Narco COM1, KX155 COM2, and a 396 in a panel dock. I am a hard core Mooney guy, but those early 210s can really haul a load and not too bad on fuel if you are willing to run a little slower LOP.

They are indestructibe airplanes much like the Mooney, but will burn more fuel because they have a little more drag. But I was surprised at the 11 GPH.

I stand corrected , I thought they all had 520s

[Mcstealth]

IO-470, 1500 TBO Continental.

Four Seat, narrow bodied, Strut Winged, LOP operated,

[jetdriven]

its basically a Cessna 205 with retractible gear. Rugged, reliable airplanes. I think if it has no corrosion and is in stated condition 36K is a deal.

[carusoam]

There are M20Cs on barnstormers for <$38k low engine hours, newish paint, one with a newish prop...

And 2000 hr TBO.

Fly fast, save money...own a Mooney.

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

Save money, shop Mooneyspace!

[Mcstealth]

"Just remember that the purchase price is only half the equation... owning, operating and insuring is the other half, so make sure you know all about those costs on the C-210 side vs. a good M20. You'll probably have a plane similar in capability in terms of XC performance of a good M20E or F, but at 50% more fuel burn. Insurance might be more expensive too."

This plane is able to do 135-142kts under LOP operations so I am told. We test ran her to 150 Kts, 13.5 GPH 10 LOP. I was told these numers by one of my buying partners who was in the plane. I agree to the E and F analogy. Insurance will be $2800-$3000 for the partnership. I do want the Mooney but the other two partners are ganging up on me.

'If it makes prepurchase , 36K is all the money , Is he leaving the tray in for the gps , what model gps.... Could be a deal breaker...... '

36K is all the money...what? All that you would pay? It was a Garmin 500 something. A $15,000 to install Garmin I was told. I don't know for sure the model but can find out. There is a cover over the hole now. Don't know if there is a tray there or not. Oh. and it is not in Six Pack configuration the instrumentation, but it is not terrible either. FYI

When it comes to money, my concen is obviously the 1500 TBO and 2000 hr Prop. What are we talking here? $25,000 or more for the engine if you go all the way? How much for the prop? I don't know. We will need to install some kind of GPS $$$???

I will need 20 hours with 10 being instrument for the insurance so there is $1000 for the CFII. Same probably for one of the other partners. We would pass the 1500 TBO in less than a year I would predict.

Again. $36,000

Is it worth it?

[Hank]

I don't know much about C210's other than their landing gear looks mightly complicated, and I always want to reach for a shotgun when I see one retracting. It looks so much like a duck . . .

150 knots LOP, but at what fuel burn?

Don't use the Insurance Dual as a reason to not buy it; you'll have to do something similar if you buy a Mooney, too. Mine was 15 hours dual as a low-time, no-complex VFR pilot, but it was interesting and useful to get used to how to slow down, and really helped burn the systems, procedures and flows into my head.

Sounds like he pulled his Garmin 530W out; the tray is probably still there, and the cable, antenna, etc., which would simplify install of something for you. Don't know if 430W & 530W use the same tray, cable connections, etc. How much $upgrade will you have left to fill that hole? How important is GPS to you?

[jetdriven]

I got 150 knots TAS at 11.5 GPH at 8500 feet. The IO-470 engine is about the same price as a Lycoming IO-360, so that's a wash.

[Alan Fox]

Not sure about the Cessna , but the 470 in a beech can easily do 2300 hours safely , Most have to be topped midtime , if not run regularly ..........overhauls start about 23000 for a field overhaul , if the prop makes overhaul it is about 2300 , blades and collars can get expensive.... Nice roomy with a lot of payload....

[jetdriven]

The bottom ends on Continentals are legendary, but they have cylinder problems. Lycomings eat cams and tend to ruin the whole thing. I'd feel OK with a 1300 hour IO-470 as long as it had good compressions, dental cam borescope pics of the valves, and it didnt run hot or use oil.

[Alan Fox]

The bottom ends on Continentals are legendary, but they have cylinder problems. Lycomings eat cams and tend to ruin the whole thing. I'd feel OK with a 1300 hour IO-470 as long as it had good compressions, dental cam borescope pics of the valves, and it didnt run hot or use oil.

Agreed , when run over 30 hours a month , tops on these will also run close to 2300 hours also .....I think my 520 is at 1600 hours with 4 original cylinders , but I run conservative at about 65% .....

[jetdriven]

Beechtalk is full of Continental owners who have to do a top at 1200 hours. THe valves burn because the valves and guides are not machined concentric to the valve seat, and they afre guaranteed not to make TBO. Sad really, they are fine engines except for that.

[rbridges]

Is 1090 a good useful load for that type plane? It's a 6 seat plane, correct? I didn't know if the useful load went up on the newer models.

[Mcstealth]

This is the first year model 210, and it has four seats, not six. The W&B says 1090 Useful load. The cabin is the narrow version but the baggage space is large. The back seat actually has less head room than the F's and J's that I have sat in recently. Shoulder to shoulder is hardly any better than Mooney for this model Cessna.

Without a pre-buy done yet, what would everybody offer for this bird?

David

[Alan Fox]

I wouldnt even think of offering before prebuy

[OR75]

So the owner took the GPS to install it in another aircraft ? I suppose he has filed the appropriate form 337 to keep the A/C airworthy. The GPSS does not any good without GPS.

[Mcstealth]

I wouldnt even think of offering before prebuy

You are right. Not going to offer without a pre-buy with corrosion inspection.

So the owner took the GPS to install it in another aircraft ? I suppose he has filed the appropriate form 337 to keep the A/C airworthy. The GPSS does not any good without GPS.

Yes. He installed it into his much newer Centurian. The AP functions off of the VOR as well so it is operational. Can not answer about the 337. Where will I find it in all these log books I have been studying?

DF

[Alan Fox]

So the owner took the GPS to install it in another aircraft ? I suppose he has filed the appropriate form 337 to keep the A/C airworthy. The GPSS does not any good without GPS.

A gps is not required so you dont need a 337 to remove it , just a log book entry...